Maternal aggressor finds doughnuts more important than own child

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
This is involuntary manslaughter at best. There is not intent in that charge. I'm sorry, but I'm a parent and you just don't forget a child that young. I'm the most forgetful person I know (almost that I think I have a medical problem) yet I never forget where my children are. They are always the first priority on my mind (maybe i'm so obsessed with them that's why I forget everything else). Even if you forget for an hour or two, eight hours is just unfreaking believable! Eight hours!!! That had to be intentional! I hope she at least loses her job.

I guess she remembered that the kid was at daycare. Which was incorrect, but hardly means she wasnt thinking about the kid. She just forgot that she forgot to drop the kid off.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Charges for forgeting something?

She didn't forget her wallet or accidentally leave the lights on at home. She left her daughter in a car and caused her death.

You can get a ticket for forgetting to put on a seat belt, you damn well better get a far more severe punishment for forgetting to keep your daughter alive.

At the bare minimum she should have her other child taken away from her permanently and never again be legally trusted with the care of another human being (or house pet imho). Personally I think she should go to jail.

[Shrapnel12]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



It says that she drove to school with the kid and doughnuts. AFAICT she forgot to stop at daycare. The kids was asleep in the back, the doughnuts were next to her, and when she parked at school and got the doughnuts out, she had completely forgotten the kid was there, since in her normal routine the kid would already be at daycare. For the rest of the day, she simply assumed the kid was at daycare, and forgot about not dropping her off.

Or maybe not. There really isnt enough info above. I would assume if there was reason to believe this was beyond a tragic accident, the prosectur would have discovered it. But if folks wish to judge a case based on a brief newspaper article, they are of course free to do so.

What more do you need to know then that she left her child in the car resulting in the child's death? Unless she was then somehow physically incapable or restrained from getting the child, it's criminal. Of course I admit we are now getting more into opinion here than anything else. I merely place a high value on children and I have an even higher standard of what makes a good parent. Without reading the letter of the law however, I still think this is a case of involuntary manslaughter. I would appreciate your comments on this. You are a lawyer LotM,correct?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12


What more do you need to know then that she left her child in the car resulting in the child's death? Unless she was then somehow physically incapable or restrained from getting the child, it's criminal. Of course I admit we are now getting more into opinion here than anything else. I merely place a high value on children and I have an even higher standard of what makes a good parent. Without reading the letter of the law however, I still think this is a case of involuntary manslaughter. I would appreciate your comments on this. You are a lawyer LotM,correct?

1. Im not a lawyer

2. I place a VERY high value on children as well. I dont think we know that this woman didnt. I wont judge her based on such limited info. I assume the prosecutor had more info than we do.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


She didn't forget her wallet or accidentally leave the lights on at home. She left her daughter in a car and caused her death.

You can get a ticket for forgetting to put on a seat belt, you damn well better get a far more severe punishment for forgetting to keep your daughter alive.

I cant imagine a punishment more severe than what she has already undergone, and will undergo for every day of her life until she dies. In her position, I could well imagine hoping for the death penalty.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by OzzyKP

At the bare minimum she should have her other child taken away from her permanently and never again be legally trusted with the care of another human being (or house pet imho). Personally I think she should go to jail.

There are several hundred death like this every year. I cant help but wonder how many people leave their kids in a car, and then by sheer chance, are reminded of what theyve done, and go back and save the kids. I assume its considerably more.

I rather suspect those parents, are precisely the ones this will never happen to again, as they will be more obsessively careful than most.

I also wonder if you have much familiarity with the problems of the social service system, and how awful most of the alternatives for children in it are. I have a friend who used to be a childs advocate lawyer in such cases, and we heard horror stories, both of kids moving from foster home to foster home, and of kids being returned to crack addict type moms, etc.

Maybe on investigation the other kid will be better off removed from this moms care. Maybe. Again, Id be reluctant to judge based on a newspaper article.

[DinoDoc]

I cant imagine a punishment more severe than what she has already undergone, and will undergo for every day of her life until she dies.

Are you sure about this? I'm actually not sure this wasn't intentional given that a) she's done it before and b) she actually went back to the car 5 times even getting back in that car to move it to another parking spot.

[lord of the mark]

did she know when she went back that the kid was in the car? I dont drive an SUV, but I can imagine she didnt look in back (Why would she, if she didnt think the kid was there) and didnt see.

I would think about this:

"The statements of witnesses, a significant interview with Cecilia's mother and a review of videotape and audiotape support "

I dont have the statements or interview or tapes. Apparently neither does the reporter who wrote the article. The prosecutor does.

And yes, my a priori, knowing parents, and what its like to be a parent, is that I think its far more common for people to be total airheads, than it is to want to cold bloodedly murder ones own toddler, without any motive or explanation why.

[DinoDoc]

Going back 5 times sounds like checking to see if the child is dead yet to me.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Going back 5 times sounds like checking to see if the child is dead yet to me.

why would she need to do that? Why not just wait till the end of the day?

What did she say to the DA about why she went back? Do you even know?

[Lorizael]

Wasn't the child spotted by a random passerby?

She went back to the SUV five times and didn't see her own daughter?

Honestly, I can believe that she just didn't see the toddler, but I don't really think we should excuse that kind of stupidity.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Wasn't the child spotted by a random passerby?

She went back to the SUV five times and didn't see her own daughter?

Honestly, I can believe that she just didn't see the toddler, but I don't really think we should excuse that kind of stupidity.

Maybe the passerby was coming to the area from a differnt angle?

Dont you think the DA thought of that and asked it?

Pardon, but I wonder if people who make assumptions based on brief newspaper articles, despite how much ALL of us know reporters routinely get wrong when they report on things WE know about, and on that basis second guess trained prosecutors, are intelligent enough to raise children.

[DinoDoc]

Does it even begin to strain the bounds of credulity for you to believe that a mother could go back to her SUV a total of 5 times (even getting in it to move it once) and miss something as large as a baby (I presume that those are harder to miss than one's keys or wallet.)?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

I cant imagine a punishment more severe than what she has already undergone, and will undergo for every day of her life until she dies. In her position, I could well imagine hoping for the death penalty.

I was thinking about this. How does one live with oneself after doing something like this? The only answer I came up with was substance abuse.

edit: this, of course, assumes it really was an accident.

-Arrian

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Pardon, but I wonder if people who make assumptions based on brief newspaper articles, despite how much ALL of us know reporters routinely get wrong when they report on things WE know about, and on that basis second guess trained prosecutors, are intelligent enough to raise children.

Christ, I wouldn't trust me with a child. One more reason why I'm never having one!