Maternal aggressor finds doughnuts more important than own child

[BeBMan]

Well, you'd have to prove that I willingly ignored the law. Maybe I just forgot it - that's a valid point.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro
Well, you'd have to prove that I willingly ignored the law. Maybe I just forgot it - that's a valid point.

That has nothing to do with it. If you intentionally broke the law (commit the act) then you commited a criminal act. It doesn't matter if you know the law or not. However, if you did not intentionally break the law (commit the act) then you couldn't have commited a criminal act.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by BeBro
Cool, then I can just go on a rampage with my car and tell afterwards I forgot that it isn't ok to run over people.

Now that you've posted about it... nope. Premeditated...

(As for whether you could pull off running down some pedestrians because you "forgot" they were there... probably has more to do with how good a lawyer you have rather than what the law is.)

[Dauphin]

If you forget the law, and break it, then ignorance of the law is not a defence (usually). Similarly, you are generally considered criminally negligent if the misdeed is caused by your failure to act in a way which would be reasonably expected of a person with your responsibility and experience. (Can't remember definition off hand).

She'd not be charged for forgetting, she'd be charged for manslaughter brought about by not acting in way that would be adequately expected to avoid such a result.

[lord of the mark]

at least she didnt take the kid into the doughnut shop where it would disturb the other patrons, right?


I just see the whole thing as sad. Very sad. I once read about a case where the kid was normally taken to day care by the mom, and this one day by the dad. The dad, never having taken the kid, just forgot the kid was there (kid must have been asleep) and left the kid in the car in the parking garage while he went to work, and the kid died.

Im ADD, and have often forgotten stuff in my car, and I thank G-d nothing like that has ever happened to me and my kid.

Its a huge responsibility, being a parent. I remember when we were in the hospital when POTM was born, it was the day before QOTM and POTM were to come home. POTM was in QOTMs room with us. I walk out of the room for some reason, and I see an acquaintance of ours who was due about the same time, and whos just arrived on the ward. I call to QOTM "Guess what, Suzy is here too" and go to say hi to Suzy. QOTM walks into Suzy's room and says hi. After about 15 seconds or so, I turn to QOTM and say "wait, whos with the baby?"

We went back and POTM was fine, but we stared at each other and it only then really, really sank in, what we'd committed ourselves for.

Well POTM is reminding us how close she is to getting a learners permit (to drive), and is gently asking us to butt out of her academic choices, and I guess that phase is pretty much over. But its hard to understand if youve never been there.

[Lorizael]

Totally unrelated, but I'm curious, LOTM: Did you or other posters originally come up with the QOTM and POTM nomenclature?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Dauphin
If you forget the law, and break it, then ignorance of the law is not a defence (usually). Similarly, you are generally considered criminally negligent if the misdeed is caused by your failure to act in a way which would be reasonably expected of a person with your responsibility and experience. (Can't remember definition off hand).

She'd not be charged for forgetting, she'd be charged for manslaughter brought about by not acting in way that would be adequately expected to avoid such a result.

Yup. In this case she didn't act intentionally (to kill the child), therefore looking only at intention or not isn't enough.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
But its hard to understand if youve never been there.

She has been there before. I can't even believe that you as a parent would attempt to excuse this.

@ Japher: Is this your school district? I hope your kids don't go to that school. Is there any chance you could avoid sending your kids there if she retains her job as I would fear for thier safety if that is the standard of care provided by the administration there.

Amazingly, she still has another child in her custody.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
She has been there before. I can't even believe that you as a parent would attempt to excuse this.

@ Japher: Is this your school district? I hope your kids don't go to that school. Is there any chance you could avoid sending your kids there if she retains her job as I would fear for thier safety if that is the standard of care provided by the administration there.

Amazingly, she still has another child in her custody.

I wasnt saying SHE had never been there, but that some other folks had never been there. Was that unclear?

I dont know that I was excusing anything. I certainly wasnt commenting on the legal ramifications. I was just sad. I was sad for the kid, and I was sad for the parent. Is that so wrong?

As for middle school admins, Ive got plenty of issues with middle school admins, but in general they arent in position to leave their charges in hot cars. Most of them dont even have "charge" of the kids, but shuffle papers relating to them.

At this point, Id love to find a HS admin who has severe ADD. Someone who just MIGHT be understanding of kids with that condition. Better still, an admin whos ADD and gifted.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Totally unrelated, but I'm curious, LOTM: Did you or other posters originally come up with the QOTM and POTM nomenclature?

I came up with my handle, others shortened it to LOTM, and I extended it to QOTM and POTM.

[Shrapnel12]

This is involuntary manslaughter at best. There is not intent in that charge. I'm sorry, but I'm a parent and you just don't forget a child that young. I'm the most forgetful person I know (almost that I think I have a medical problem) yet I never forget where my children are. They are always the first priority on my mind (maybe i'm so obsessed with them that's why I forget everything else). Even if you forget for an hour or two, eight hours is just unfreaking believable! Eight hours!!! That had to be intentional! I hope she at least loses her job.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
I'm the most forgetful person I know...

How do you know there aren't more forgetful people that you just can't remember right now?

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
This is involuntary manslaughter at best. There is not intent in that charge. I'm sorry, but I'm a parent and you just don't forget a child that young. I'm the most forgetful person I know (almost that I think I have a medical problem) yet I never forget where my children are. They are always the first priority on my mind (maybe i'm so obsessed with them that's why I forget everything else). Even if you forget for an hour or two, eight hours is just unfreaking believable! Eight hours!!! That had to be intentional! I hope she at least loses her job.

blah - blah - blah.

[Shrapnel12]

Originally posted by Lorizael


How do you know there aren't more forgetful people that you just can't remember right now?

Uh, I forget?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Is it? Does that doughnut story sound remotely believeable to anyone since she got back in the car to move it after getting the doughnuts.

It says that she drove to school with the kid and doughnuts. AFAICT she forgot to stop at daycare. The kids was asleep in the back, the doughnuts were next to her, and when she parked at school and got the doughnuts out, she had completely forgotten the kid was there, since in her normal routine the kid would already be at daycare. For the rest of the day, she simply assumed the kid was at daycare, and forgot about not dropping her off.

Or maybe not. There really isnt enough info above. I would assume if there was reason to believe this was beyond a tragic accident, the prosectur would have discovered it. But if folks wish to judge a case based on a brief newspaper article, they are of course free to do so.