Greatest Civilization in the World - Hurt or Heal?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Since my votes were not added in at midnight .

9 - USA
10 - Inca
2 - Mayas
12 - Germany
20 - England/Britain
14 - France
12 - Spain
26 - Rome
16 - Greece
10 - Byzantium
20 - Egypt
14 - Persia
7 - Arabia
10 - Babylon
20 - China
16 - India
12 – Japan

[Patroklos]

11 - USA
10 - Inca
0 - Mayas
12 - Germany
20 - England/Britain
14 - France
12 - Spain
26 - Rome
16 - Greece
10 - Byzantium
20 - Egypt
14 - Persia
7 - Arabia
10 - Babylon
20 - China
16 - India
12 – Japan

[DAVOUT]

How Germany has lost two points between Imran and Pat?

[Patroklos]

Ah, looks like you posted while I was still typing, so I missed your update (same thing happened with Imran but I caught that). Fixed

[Arrian]

12 - USA (+1)
10 - Inca
12 - Germany
20 - England/Britain
14 - France
12 - Spain
26 - Rome
17 - Greece (+1)
10 - Byzantium
20 - Egypt
13 - Persia (-1)
9 - Arabia
9 - Babylon (-1)
20 - China
16 - India
12 – Japan

As one would expect, this thread will largely be about how awful (or awesome) the USA is. Sigh.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

Why is Arabia at 9?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Arrian

As one would expect, this thread will largely be about how awful (or awesome) the USA is. Sigh.

*sigh* +2

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dauphin

For example, what language do you speak? That is something fundamental to your everyday life. And jokes aside, it ain't 'American'.

HL Mencken could surely joke, but he wasnt joking when he wrote this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Language

Actually the language we speak is coastal Germanic. It made a sojourn in England, where it picked up a bunch of French, Latin, and Scandinavion words. Its been over here for 400 years, where it has changed further.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Blake
"The culture which brought you obesity, global warming, etc etc".

Green house gas build up started with the industrial revolution in UK, you DO know that, right?

[lord of the mark]

As one would expect, this thread will largely be about how awful (or awesome) the USA is. Sigh.

-Arrian

Yup.

And since when is a nation state a civilization? (Well since Sid Meiers published the first Civ game, but cant we see how silly that is. It may be necessary for game mechanics, whatever, but why would we use such a silly definition for a history thread?)

[Maquiladora]

12 - USA
10 - Inca
12 - Germany
22 - England/Britain +2
14 - France
12 - Spain
24 - Rome -2
17 - Greece
10 - Byzantium
20 - Egypt
13 - Persia
9 - Arabia
9 - Babylon
20 - China
16 - India
12 – Japan

[Arrian]

Hmm. The Brits certainly are coming up roses in this thread.

Heh. Imagine a time warp back to the 19th century. They'd be at 12 and about to drop as several people came back to vote again...

-Arrian

[Arrian]

If one wanted to do this "right" (to the extent there is such a thing), one must first properly define greatness.

On the one hand, you have the idea that greatness is the impact of the civ on the world, without a moral judgment on that impact.

On the other, you have the (21st century) moral version, which would probably elevate a group of civs/nations that aren't on this list at all. After all, in order to become a "great" nation under the first sort of definition, you have to attain and wield power. Power is usually attained by stomping others, and wielding power typically means dominating others (or worse).

So if you want to argue for the second sort of "greatness" you probably need a write-in candidate, because each of the civs/nations on this list beat the everliving crap out of others at some point, and has plenty of blood on their hands (I'm sure aneeshm would disagree with that wrt India, and I don't know enough to argue it well, but there are plenty of things one can pick on India for even if they were nice to their neighbors).

-Arrian

p.s. In other words, if you want to argue for Canada or New Zealand or something, fine. But if we're going that route, as Ludd pointed out, Rome makes the USA look angelic (well, he probably wouldn't go that far, but you know what I mean).

[Wernazuma III]

12 - USA
10 - Inca
12 - Germany
22 - England/Britain
14 - France
12 - Spain
24 - Rome
17 - Greece
10 - Byzantium
20 - Egypt
13 - Persia
9 - Arabia
7 - Babylon-2
22 - China +2
16 - India
12 – Japan

[Kuciwalker]

There's actually an easy way to resolve this: just wait until 2050 and see who has the highest score.