Stupid Canadian Cops Busted Trying To Incite Protest Riot

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Flubber
BUt perhaps some think that violence tends to get blamed on protesters and therefore tends to discredit them with the general public a bit.

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winnah!

Look, I've seen videos of people sitting on the ground with the cops standing around, and all of the sudden the cops attack. The announcer then says the protesters started the violence. At every demo I've been at, when there has been mass violence, it has always been the police who initiated it. Occasionally you'll get one knucklehead starting something, but when the police respond, they attack the crowd.

Speaking of, the antiwar group I'm part of: The Broward Anti War Coalition and five other groups won a law suit against the city of Fort Lauderdale because of the city's actions leading up to the protest. We won $10,000 to split between the six groups. Hmmmm.

As massive law suit is still going on over the cops response at the Miami FTAA protests several years back, and the MDPD is in a lot of hot water over that BS.

The truth is, we aren't South Korean steel workers. We aren't going to beat the cops in a street fight. We are going to get beaten, probably badly, and then arrested. That's why we don't start fights with the cops.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
Interesting -- since in two different jobs my "superior analytical skills" have been cited and I make a great living "reasoning" all day long. Ahh buit I guess I should take the word of an internet commie that I have never met.

It doesn't suprise me to know that you are more reasonable at your job. Actually it makes more sense to me that you are more reasonable than you appear to be judging from your posts here on poly. If it were your job to make a judgement regarding this matter I believe you would make different claims. I think a lot of people are smarter in real life than they are on poly.

OH and I don't know what you are getting at with the "might"

Dictionary.com discusses "might" as follows

Used to indicate a possibility or probability that is weaker than may: We might discover a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Used to express possibility or probability or permission in the past: She told him yesterday he might not go on the trip.


I don't think anyone could misunderstand what I have been saying if they read even moderately carefully so I don't know what you are trying to say. Since "might' is used to express a "possibility" or "probability" in the past.

But I ain't no grammar whiz so I'll accept that there might be a better word to use

Agathon, covered it fine. Your opinions here are absurd. You "might" be on crack. You "probably" just aren't honest with yourself and others when it comes to matters like these. See the difference.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Agathon
Now you're grasping.

He's been grasping the whole time. He's not going to stop. He can keep gasping forever.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
2. Is it likely that a protester with a number of weapons like rocks might share them with other people he thought were protesters like him. I assess this as highly likley.

I asked you that if rocks were being passed out if it were more likely that 1) rocks would be thrown, or 2) rocks would not be thrown.

Your answer is that they would not be thrown? This is the kind of decision you make at work?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai

Yeah, that's the theory, but it gives too much credit to the idiots who turn up at protests looking for a fight. These guys are none too bright. And we have video cameras which are far more effective at identifying the idiots, so what's the point of plainclothes.

Still, I've got no problem with plainclothes police, I just don't think they are useful. And when the cops start wearing masks and holding rocks, that's a problem.

But the best way to prevent violence at any demonstration is to have cops in uniform in the crowd. It reduces the us vs. them mentality. I've been in protests where this has happened and it can make a big difference.

There are demostrations where uniforms in the crowd would be a target and a liability. Aggie has mentioned the penchant for violence among the guys in masks.

If plain clothes cops do not deter the violence at the site, then they may increase the chances of a successful prosecution after the fact since they could be a witness and they will be there to testify, unlike many/most/all other members of the crowd.

The OPP recently did it right with the day of protest blockage of major highways and railroads in Ontario. They stood back, let the protests happen, and helped build the prosecution of the ring-leader(s) after the fact. I'm not sure if this involved plain cloathes in the crowd, but it is an example of good management of what could have been a messy confrontation.

Trying to show up with masks and join the 'bad guys' was pretty silly, obviously from the results. If they wanted to infiltrate the black mask dudes, they should have devoted some effort to undervcover work starting well before the protest.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai


They do take hostile action. You can see the masked cops hitting Cole and the other union guys three or four times. At one point, the one cop takes a couple of step towards Cole and hits him with a shove, obviously trying to start fight.

Initially Cole is trying to keep the guy with the rock from the police line, (probably thinking the guy is a protester and he doesn't want the cops to have an excuse to charge) and later, Cole tries to keep the real protesters from the cops. In other words, Cole is trying to defuse the situation by preventing direct conflict between the cops and the masked cops (who Cole initially thinks are protesters).

We're seeing different things in the same video.

I see cops trying to move away from the guys they unsuccessfully tried to infiltrate, and get back to the safety of the police line.

I see people trying to obstruct them, perhaps with good reason when he/they thought they could be demonstrators going for the cops. But what about when he's convinced they are cops? What is the point in prolonging the confrontation then? They were 10 steps form the police line and moving around the crowd.

The cops reacted appropriately to the threats presented. I see them trying to defuse the situation by getting the hell out of Dodge.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Agathon


This has long since evolved past the video. There is testimony from various sources now.

Again, I invite you to explain why we should doubt the word of people who have so far not been caught in a lie, against the word of a police force that has been caught in two lies already.

These guys went to stir up trouble at the Bloc end of the protest. They got outed after trying to encourage other protesters to be aggressive, and they made their way back through the other protest, where they acted like douchebags once more, and perhaps attempted to encourage the blockers there to riot.

It's the simplest explanation, and is in character for the Canadian police when it comes to issues like this.

Testimony of bolders tossed that weigh like an alp, I'm sure.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber


Hmmm-- I have voted for all three major parties and support gay marriage, progressive taxation, a strong social safety net, stem cell research etc etc

Thats quite a tory agenda now isn't it

You're such a Clarkist!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Trying to show up with masks and join the 'bad guys' was pretty silly, obviously from the results. If they wanted to infiltrate the black mask dudes, they should have devoted some effort to undervcover work starting well before the protest.

There's also a difference between this and keeping the peace. I don't know what the current law is in Canada, but if the group hasn't broken the law it should be illegal to infiltrate the group. In the US it is not because of the WoT. This should be a temp situation.

[notyoueither]

The guys in black masks have broken the law(s) at various demonstrations around the world. Aggie admits they are prone to political violence.

They are fair game for police surveillance/investigation in my book.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The guys in black masks have broken the law(s) at various demonstrations around the world.

They are fair game for the police, in my book.

Are you sure? They must have a lot of frequent flier miles.

[notyoueither]

I'm sure not all of the local jihadists have been to Mecca.

That does not mean the police should not pay attention to them.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I'm sure not all of the local jihadists have been to Mecca.

That does not mean the police should not pay attention to them.

I don't know about the group. Do you? Or do you just know that they wear black masks.

If the group has used violence in the past then I can see the need to infiltrate them. Otherwise, no.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by notyoueither
We're seeing different things in the same video.

I see cops trying to move away from the guys they unsuccessfully tried to infiltrate, and get back to the safety of the police line.

I see people trying to obstruct them, perhaps with good reason when he/they thought they could be demonstrators going for the cops. But what about when he's convinced they are cops? What is the point in prolonging the confrontation then? They were 10 steps form the police line and moving around the crowd.

The cops reacted appropriately to the threats presented. I see them trying to defuse the situation by getting the hell out of Dodge.

Defuse the situation? They don't try to leave. Instead of walking away, they stay in the area, with one of them holding the rock.

Cole meanwhile is pointing away from the riot police and telling the masked cops repeatedly to leave, and to put down the rock.

When the masked cops approach the riot police, the union guys see them as protesters trying to start a fight. The union guys try to create a barrier between the riot police and the angry "protesters."

At around 1:40 on the video, you can see the riot cops pushing the masked cops away, because the riot police probably think these guys are protesters.

As this is all going on, the masked cops are hitting the union guys with repeated shoves. The masked cops do nothing to defuse the situation.

At 2:20 in the video, Cole says "these three guys are cops." After that, the union guys make no effort to block the masked cops.

Interestingly, once their cover is blown by Cole, the masked cops are allowed into the riot police line.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't know about the group. Do you? Or do you just know that they wear black masks.

If the group has used violence in the past then I can see the need to infiltrate them. Otherwise, no.

Well, we do have Aggie's opinion that they are prone to violence.