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Arrian, where are you finding these threads? The archives don't seem to go that far back...
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon -
I've seen one of my threads from 01 in there Ramo. A quite emberassing one to about AH's and MtG's bet about the health of OBL.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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It doesn't really have much to do with the war... for me, that thread was all about Savita.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Ramo,
I go to the OT archives, order it to go in ascending order, and select "from the beginning." Dino's right: it goes back to 2001.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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I see. The little dot that tells you if you've posted in a thread doesn't show up in the archives.
*smacks forehead*
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Even I made a WWII comparison (of course, I think that mine was far more apt than others I've seen, given how limited in scope it was, but hey):
In response to Tass' allegation that:Tass,
I'm skeptical about my government's "after war" plans too (I don't think they have any, really), but seeing as they had generals controlling Japan and W. Germany after WWII "until democracy could be set up" and those countries are now free & democratic... can't you acknowledge the possibility of the same scenario being repeated?
-Arrian
Thread link (though it's short and not very interesting):"Actually, the US has admitted to planning on having the general control the country "Until demcoracy can be set up".
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.......
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Hmmm...
I just went though as much of 2003 as I can handle and didn't find anything from myself or Arrian, alot of Ramo in there though.
Odd, becaus I remember missing Poly when I was at OCS form May-August 2003, but that was my senior year of college so I might have had other hobbies besides Poly (unbelievable) at the time."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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Since I'm using "last post date" as the sorting method (prolly a bad idea), I'm still getting the odd 2002 thread.
My position, pre-war, in a nutshell:
Invading Iraq is, IMO, a bad idea.
However, considering that the US government has painted itself into a corner on the issue where it either eventually nails Saddam or loses face in a big way, the changes of it happening remain pretty good (say 50%).
If it does happen, I don't worry so much about the actual fighting as the aftermath. The only post-invasion plan I see as having a silver lining is an Iraqi Marshall Plan, and that: a) is extremely expensive, b) is time consuming, and c) requires a large number of occupation troops. Given the current administration's dislike of nation-building and the current US economic situation, I don't see the Bush administration going for that type of plan. The war itself would cost a pretty penny too. So I worry that if there is a war, we'll just pick some general, hand him Iraq, and bail.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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And from the same thread, an even better posts by GePap:
The great danger of invading Iraq is not military: the US mlitary would beat the Iraqi army, without question: though at a higher cost than Gulf War 1, which was very low anyway. The great problem is political. We have no vision for Iraq the day after, and every optimistic assumption for the invasion envisions us fighting only the Iraqi army, without the possibiliy of popular resistance. The problem is that without a clear political vision for Iraq, the danges of armed resistance grow, and Israel's experience in the Occupied territories should be a great example of how even a first class military has great problems with low level violence, since all those fancy gadget begin to mean less and less. The US can't afford politically any significant popular resistance to our occupation of Iraq. The political cost to the US in the Arab world, and even at home, would be tremendous.
Everyone says Iraqi's will not fight for Saddam. Fine, but what will we offer them after Saddam? Read the newspapers: we have no one waiting in line, and the Iraqi opposition has already stated that an occupation government of Iraq is not an option they will accet, and I highly doubt it is one the Iraqi people will accept. And for those people who think: who cares, we will make them: look at the occupied territories. Do you really think the US public would accept pictures of Iraqis throwing stones at US soldiers and shooting at them, with US soldiers shoting back and then ask: "what the hell is going on, and why the hell shall we stay, if they don' want us there?". After all, Israel has a far greater interest in staying in the West Bank than we will ever have to stay in Iraq.-ArrianPeople keep looking at all these issues simply from a military point of view but Clausewitz was correct: war is politics by other means. Winning a war does not only mean beating an army: it means remaking the political map in your favor. The type of war the US is envisioning in Iraq by itself does ntohing to make the map of the ME more US friendly. The occupation aftre the war is the key period to any Iraq operation, and that is the bit no one is thinking of. The Allies were trying to put together post war plans in ww2 by 1943, almost 2 years before full military victory. Our war in Iraq will take about 4 weeks, and yet we have no worthwhile plans for a future Iraq as is. That is our Achilles heel, and where this whole little enterprise might flounder and come back to bite us in the ass bigtime later on. Until the Bushies come up with a worthwhile political map for AS +1 (After Saddam) I think this comming war (and it is coming) is a terrible mistake.grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Seems about right except the last part, so far anyways."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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I was wrong about the "pick some general and bail" part, at least so far, yeah. There has been a real effort (clumsy, but real) at setting up a democracy.
My real complaint about this is that they (Bush Admin, Pentagon... the planners of the war) simply didn't think it all the way through.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Anyone care to guess who said this?I hate to say it but I almost hope Saddam does use his Chemical weapons once or twice since it will completely prove the case and make the anti-war protesters look like the stupid fools that they are.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Has this been done in this thread yet?
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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In any event (back to the subject at hand), we have been in the midst of an insurgency for several years now, but until earlier this year have not competently applied counter-insurgency military strategy and tactics. Can we agree on that?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Sure, for what it's worth. Which isn't much.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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