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Oh fer Chrissakes! Can we get any more amateurish?

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  • Oh fer Chrissakes! Can we get any more amateurish?

    Weapons Given to Iraq Are Missing
    GAO Estimates 30% of Arms Are Unaccounted For

    By Glenn Kessler
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Monday, August 6, 2007; A01

    The Pentagon has lost track of about 190,000 AK-47 assault rifles and pistols given to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, according to a new government report, raising fears that some of those weapons have fallen into the hands of insurgents fighting U.S. forces in Iraq.

    The author of the report from the Government Accountability Office says U.S. military officials do not know what happened to 30 percent of the weapons the United States distributed to Iraqi forces from 2004 through early this year as part of an effort to train and equip the troops. The highest previous estimate of unaccounted-for weapons was 14,000, in a report issued last year by the inspector general for Iraq reconstruction.

    The United States has spent $19.2 billion trying to develop Iraqi security forces since 2003, the GAO said, including at least $2.8 billion to buy and deliver equipment. But the GAO said weapons distribution was haphazard and rushed and failed to follow established procedures, particularly from 2004 to 2005, when security training was led by Gen. David H. Petraeus, who now commands all U.S. forces in Iraq.

    The Pentagon did not dispute the GAO findings, saying it has launched its own investigation and indicating it is working to improve tracking. Although controls have been tightened since 2005, the inability of the United States to track weapons with tools such as serial numbers makes it nearly impossible for the U.S. military to know whether it is battling an enemy equipped by American taxpayers.

    "They really have no idea where they are," said Rachel Stohl, a senior analyst at the Center for Defense Information who has studied small-arms trade and received Pentagon briefings on the issue. "It likely means that the United States is unintentionally providing weapons to bad actors."


    One senior Pentagon official acknowledged that some of the weapons probably are being used against U.S. forces. He cited the Iraqi brigade created at Fallujah that quickly dissolved in September 2004 and turned its weapons against the Americans.

    Stohl said insurgents frequently use small-arms fire to force military convoys to move in a particular direction -- often toward roadside bombs. She noted that the Bush administration frequently complains that Iran and Syria are supplying insurgents but has paid little attention to whether U.S. military errors inadvertently play a role. "We know there is seepage and very little is being done to address the problem," she said.

    Stohl noted that U.S. forces, focused on a fruitless search for weapons of mass destruction after Baghdad fell, did not secure massive weapons caches. The failure to track small arms given to Iraqi forces repeats that pattern of neglect, she added.

    The GAO is studying the financing and weapons sources of insurgent groups, but that report will not be made public. "All of that information is classified," said Joseph A. Christoff, the GAO's director of international affairs and trade.

    In an unusual move, the train-and-equip program for Iraqi forces is being managed by the Pentagon. Normally, the traditional security assistance programs are operated by the State Department, the GAO reported. The Defense Department said this change permitted greater flexibility, but as of last month it was unable to tell the GAO what accountability procedures, if any, apply to arms distributed to Iraqi forces, the report said.

    Iraqi security forces were virtually nonexistent in early 2004, and in June of that year Petraeus was brought in to build them up. No central record of distributed equipment was kept for a year and a half, until December 2005, and even now the records are on a spreadsheet that requires three computer screens lined up side by side to view a single row, Christoff said.

    The GAO found that the military was consistently unable to collect supporting documents to "confirm when the equipment was received, the quantities of equipment delivered, and the Iraqi units receiving the equipment." The agency also said there were "numerous mistakes due to incorrect manual entries" in the records that were maintained.

    The GAO reached the estimate of 190,000 missing arms -- 110,000 AK-47s and 80,000 pistols -- by comparing the property records of the Multi-National Security Transition Command for Iraq against records Petraeus maintained of the arms and equipment he had ordered. Petraeus's figures were compared with classified data and other records to ensure that they were accurate enough to compare against the property books.

    In all cases, the gaps between the two records were enormous. Petraeus reported that about 185,000 AK-47 rifles, 170,000 pistols, 215,000 pieces of body armor and 140,000 helmets were issued to Iraqi security forces from June 2004 through September 2005. But the property books contained records for 75,000 AK-47 rifles, 90,000 pistols, 80,000 pieces of body armor and 25,000 helmets.

    A military commander involved in the program at the time, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the report, acknowledged in an e-mail, "We did issue some items, including weapons, body armor, etc. to new Iraqi units that were literally going into battle."

    But, the commander argued, "there was, frankly, not much of a choice early on: We had very little staff and could have held the weapons until every piece of the logistical and property accountability system was in place, or we could issue them, in bulk on some occasions, to the U.S. elements supporting Iraqi units who were needed in the battles of Najaf, Fallujah, Mosul, Samarra, etc."

    The GAO plans to look for similar problems in the training of Afghan security forces.

    During the Bosnian conflict, the United States provided about $100 million in defense equipment to the Bosnian Federation Army, and the GAO found no problems in accounting for those weapons.

    Much of the equipment provided to Iraqi troops, including the AK-47s, originates from countries in the former Soviet bloc. In a report last year, Amnesty International said that in 2004 and 2005 more than 350,000 AK-47 rifles and similar weapons were taken out of Bosnia and Serbia, for use in Iraq, by private contractors working for the Pentagon and with the approval of NATO and European security forces in Bosnia.


    For those of you keeping score at home, that's more than one missing weapon for every American soldier in Iraq.

    Least. Competent. Administration. Ever.
    "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

  • #2


    Sorry - but that is funny...........
    I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

    Comment


    • #3
      This admin cant run a war, cant run a country, and cant run for office again, THANK GOD!
      "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
      'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nugog


        Sorry - but that is funny...........
        Don't apologize; I'd be laughing too, if it weren't my country.
        "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

        Comment


        • #5
          "They really have no idea where they are," said Rachel Stohl, a senior analyst at the Center for Defense Information who has studied small-arms trade and received Pentagon briefings on the issue. "It likely means that the United States is unintentionally providing weapons to bad actors."

          Comment


          • #6
            Feel free to shoot me for saying this, but I have no strength left to Crusade against Rufus hackery again after putting this in context in the CFC thread

            Rufus has another claim to substatiate first anyway.
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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            • #7
              Patticakes, I freely concede your point on the composition of the military. Serves me right for being sucked into defending Charles Rangel to begin with; I know better than that. But I have yet to see you concede, in the same thread, that Pentagon top brass have said that our numbers in Iraq can't br sustained beyond next spring.

              But what's your beef here? That a GAO report is "hackery"? That the GAO isn't as credible a source as the chickenhawk apologists you like to quote? What, exactly?
              "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

              Comment


              • #8
                How do you put that many missing guns "into context"?
                One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well at least now we know who is arming the enemy .
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    that Pentagon top brass have said that our numbers in Iraq can't br sustained beyond next spring.
                    I didn't contest that, I just asked what that actually means. And I think were were talking about Mullen's comment that the Army would be "at the breaking" point rather than if they could sustain their surge numbers.

                    But what's your beef here? That a GAO report is "hackery"? That the GAO isn't as credible a source as the chickenhawk apologists you like to quote? What, exactly?
                    Alright Rufus, I apologize for dragging animosity from thread to thread. I get carried away sometimes.

                    I'll get back to this one in a moment.
                    Last edited by Patroklos; August 7, 2007, 08:51.
                    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
                      Don't apologize; I'd be laughing too, if it weren't my country.
                      I'm laughing, and it is my country. Sometimes a sense of the absurd is all you've got.
                      1011 1100
                      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oh, this gets better:



                        The Government Accountability Office reports that more than 100,000 AK-47 assault rifles and another 80,000 pistols that Washington thought it was providing to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005 are now unaccounted for. More than 100,000 pieces of body armor and a similar number of helmets have also gone missing.

                        These numbers represent the discrepancy between the equipment ordered by the American commander in charge of training Iraqi forces and the equipment actually logged into the property records of those forces. Disturbingly, that commander was Gen. David Petraeus, now the overall commander of American forces in Iraq.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yay.

                          I read an lengthy article about CIA "black sites" this morning as well. I'm all warm and fuzzy.

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                          • #14
                            Maybe it was a straightforward fraud and the rifles and pistols were paid for but never actually existed.

                            Which, I suppose, would be a better case than 180,000 weapons getting as far as Iraq and then disappearing into the hands of God knows who there.

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                            • #15
                              From a standpoint of ideology, I agree with Bush most of the time. From the standpoint of execution of said ideas, Bush is a incompetent embarassment. I believe we had no choice but to eventually invade Iraq, but we did it way too soon and it has been a mess of incompetance and lies ever since.

                              I'm equally embarassed by how hatred of Bush has caused the pitiful citizens of this country to tear each other apart instead of uniting to fix the problem. We forgot the reason we went to war and and spit hate and self-righteous bile on our troops just as in Vietnam, all the while claiming to support or troops. I don't care what Bush wanted, we could have turned this into our war instead of Bush's ware. There could have been a polotician who stood up and turned this into a positive effort to destroy terroism, instead of taking advantage of our loss and fear and encouraging a cut and run strategy. America as a whole has shown just how amateurish it really is.
                              EViiiiiiL!!! - Mermaid Man

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