Greatest Civiliztion in History

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
The "byzantine empire" began as the Roman empire and always considered itself part the Roman empire, and everyone else around them considered them the Roman empire. It was only recently that we came up with a new term for them. Why would they be distinct?

You can't expect the culture and social life and such to remain stagnant for a full 1,000 years, do you? Things adapt. Half the empire fell and the other half adapted to the east. But that doesn't mean it became a new empire.

Fair points. My orientation has always been more to culture than to politics, so the distinction seems greater to me -- but I see what you're saying.

[Patroklos]

Eh, Germany has lost over a thrid of its mass in the East over the last 100 years, including the portion that most people from back in the day would most recognize as German (Prussia) and we still consider whats left Germany even though that portion that dominated its culture for so long is no more.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Eh, Germany has lost over a thrid of its mass in the East over the last 100 years, including the portion that most people from back in the day would most recognize as German (Prussia) and we still consider whats left Germany even though that portion that dominated its culture for so long is no more.

I would question that most people in 1890 would really think of East Prussia as more "German" than Frankfurt or Cologne.

[Sandman]

No-one's mentioned Russia yet. Kind of an also-ran, but still worth considering.

[Will9]

I've decide the top 24 will include 5 from Europe, Asia, the Middle East while the other 3 groups get 3. The only problem is Afica only has 2 nominations. Could please state which of the following should be done with open African spot:

A: Switch Egypt to the African group
B. Give the spot to another group (please state which)
C. Leave it as an empty spot

I vote to leave it empty

I'll be posting the polls this time tomorrow.

[Will9]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168460

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168459

[OzzyKP]

Voted

[binTravkin]

To the thread starter - shouldn't there at least be some rules by which a historical or political entity qualifies as civilization?
The most blatant example that doesn't is USA. Most other european countries also don't samely as Mogul Empire or Genghis Khan's empire for that matter.

If something is presented in cIV as 'civilization' it doesn't mean it actually is. We all know, cIV has little historical and other subject accuracy.

[binTravkin]

The Roman and Byzantine empires were far more distinct from each other -- culturally, socially, politically, and linguistically -- than any two Chinese dynasties.

Yet they both belong to the same greco-roman civilization. As pointed out, it evolved into something different than it initially was, but all through it's existance it was still the same civilization same as chinese civilization never actually changed so distinctively as to name more than one actual civilization in China. The greatest turning point in China was the birth of the chinese philosophy and introduction of Buddhism, but it only capitalized on age-old tendencies of chinese culture.
It is actually very hard to say that there's distinct Japanese 'civilization' as it differs from chinese the same way as roman from greek - many things are the same due to very long period of interaction. Rather they both and Korean should be called members of 'Far East civilization'.

[Will9]

Originally posted by binTravkin
To the thread starter - shouldn't there at least be some rules by which a historical or political entity qualifies as civilization?
The most blatant example that doesn't is USA. Most other european countries also don't samely as Mogul Empire or Genghis Khan's empire for that matter.

If something is presented in cIV as 'civilization' it doesn't mean it actually is. We all know, cIV has little historical and other subject accuracy.

I decided to make no rules to what would be considered a "civilization." This way people could nominate whoever they wanted and if many people didn't see it as a civilization, it would get eliminated.