Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix -- SPOILERS (film & books)

[Solver]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Say what? Obviously looking as if he's being bitten by a snake and he's got bloody bites all over him.

Pfft. He should've been lying in a puddle of his own blood there.

They usually don't like 5 hour films in Hollywood these days .

I know, so I wasn't expecting a good movie to begin with. But they did have Kill Bill in two volumes. Or the last two Matrix movies.

I thought it was good enough. The important point is that James wasn't the great guy Harry seems to think he was. And that was conveyed powerfully. James was a bully and a bully to Snape.

It was just like everything else in the movie. Short and only conveying "the main point". Yeah, we saw that James was a bully, but we didn't see anything else, which helped make the book scene interesting. But in the movie it was pretty pointless anyway. Harry didn't obsess over what he saw. The point that Snape stopped giving lessons because of that (making Harry vulnerable) wasn't made. Harry didn't go talk to Sirius about that.

Well, in having to cut a bunch from the movie, getting deep into how the DA was found out would have taken too much backstory to keep it under 2.5 hours. This way, the DA is found out and Harry has a good reason not to persue Cho anymore (even though later it is found out that she had talked under Veritaserum).

You missed my point here. How it was founded was actually reasonably well-explained IMO. But why pick Cho, of all people, to be the sneak? If they didn't want to introduce Marietta, they could've let any minor character be the sneak.

Cho went out with Cedric when he was killed by Voldemort. Cho likes Harry, who founds the DA and is the only one to say Voldemort's back. And she, of all people, to betray the DA? Pretty ridiculous.



Another minor thing. I disliked how, in the battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort, their wands connected for a while. It was similar to Harry's and Voldemort's wands connecting at the end of GoF, which is an extremely rare effect and one that had great importance. Shouldn't have happened here. Other than that, the intensity of the battle along with the effects showed really well that it's a battle between two most powerful wizards out there.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But they did have Kill Bill in two volumes. Or the last two Matrix movies.

And they've planned 7 HP movies already. There is such a thing as overkill.

Short and only conveying "the main point".

It's a freaking 900 page book condensed into a 2.5 hour movie!! Of course they are going to make things short and conveying only the main points!

The point that Snape stopped giving lessons because of that (making Harry vulnerable) wasn't made.

Snape said Get Out and we never saw on Occlumency lesson again... the point was obviously made.

But why pick Cho, of all people, to be the sneak? If they didn't want to introduce Marietta, they could've let any minor character be the sneak.

Uh... because they had to find a nice and tidy (and quick) reason for Harry and Cho to not date. It was quite brilliant how they did it, I thought. If you make Cho the snitch, then Harry can't date her anymore... even though it is later revealed it was Veritaserum, the damage is already done.

Harry has to be free to fall for Ginny in HBP.

And she, of all people, to betray the DA?

You haven't heard of this thing called Veritaserum before?

It was similar to Harry's and Voldemort's wands connecting at the end of GoF, which is an extremely rare effect and one that had great importance.

Well, it wasn't exactly the same. Harry and Voldemort's wands completely connected and then a white shield formed over them. Dumbledore and Voldemort's wands met, but did not connect... there was magic flying all over the place from where they were hitting each other.

[St Leo]

Harry Potter and the Mysterious Shortage of Glasses
aka Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
3/5

Harry is the only one wearing glasses in this movie. Dumbledore and McGonagall, who have glasses in the first movie, do not have them in this one. Luna, who has glasses in the book, does not in the movie. None of the extras have glasses. I am flummoxed. My fetish for girls in glasses goes unsatisfied.

I like the tightness of the plot. The movie takes the meandering story of the book and boils it down to a singular struggle against Umbridge, Fudge, and Voldemort. Most of the teenage drama is shed.

Umbridge and Luna are terrifically compelling. Umbridge reminds me a great deal of Bush's Supreme Court candidate Harriet Myers, but that has more to do with character than with politics.

Politically, the movie is not too overt. A leftie could read it as a condemnation of Bush and political meddling with science; a rightie could read it as a call for war with Iraq/Iran/Eurabia. If anything, Rowling may have intended the former while being constrained by the story into including the latter. I wouldn't read too much into it. Hakuna matata.

I find the CGI in flying scenes over London awful. It looks like 1970s Superman.

If you are following the books or the movies, it's a worthwhile addition to the series.

[Solver]

And they've planned 7 HP movies already. There is such a thing as overkill.

I'm sure the fans would be more than willing to sit through two parts of OOTP

It's a freaking 900 page book condensed into a 2.5 hour movie!! Of course they are going to make things short and conveying only the main points!

I know. So I'm not a fan of the movies.

Snape said Get Out and we never saw on Occlumency lesson again... the point was obviously made.

Yes, obvious to you and me. To someone who hasn't read the book, not at all obvious. In the book, after Snape threw Harry out, it was pointed out multiple times how dangerous it might be for Harry not to master Occlumency. And Sirius just flew off the handle when he found out Snape stopped giving lessons.

Uh... because they had to find a nice and tidy (and quick) reason for Harry and Cho to not date. It was quite brilliant how they did it, I thought. If you make Cho the snitch, then Harry can't date her anymore... even though it is later revealed it was Veritaserum, the damage is already done.

Harry has to be free to fall for Ginny in HBP.

As an excuse to break them apart, it was pretty good. But the original betrayal is not. They should have cast Marietta as a minor role there. Veritaserum?

You haven't heard of this thing called Veritaserum before?

Doesn't make sense. Here in the movie, Umbridge questioned numerous students. If she had used Veritaserum, why would Cho be the only one to tell the truth about the DA? Why not anyone else?

I don't think Umbridge had Veritaserum. In the book, Snape gave her a fake potion when she wanted to interrogate Potter. I believe the movie was the same, with Snape providing fake Veritaserum for the interrogations about the DA.

Well, it wasn't exactly the same. Harry and Voldemort's wands completely connected and then a white shield formed over them. Dumbledore and Voldemort's wands met, but did not connect... there was magic flying all over the place from where they were hitting each other.

I don't remember how it looked in the GoF movie very well, but Voldemort's and Dumbledore's wands did connect briefly here. There was magic all over the place in their battle, and the other battles too, but the connection was different. At the start of their battle, there's clearly a red beam out of Dumbledore's wand and a green one out of Voldemort's, and the beams are connected for a while. Then Voldemort breaks the connection and creates his flame-snake.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Solver

And they've planned 7 HP movies already. There is such a thing as overkill.

I'm sure the fans would be more than willing to sit through two parts of OOTP

Maybe, maybe not. If you do two for OotP, then you have to do two, really, for HBP, and two for DH. It's not a good plan to split the book into two movies.

Snape said Get Out and we never saw on Occlumency lesson again... the point was obviously made.

Yes, obvious to you and me. To someone who hasn't read the book, not at all obvious. In the book, after Snape threw Harry out, it was pointed out multiple times how dangerous it might be for Harry not to master Occlumency. And Sirius just flew off the handle when he found out Snape stopped giving lessons.

Yes, I think obvious to someone who hasn't read the book either. I did go with people who didn't read the books... I don't think they thought Harry was still getting Occlumency lessons after Snape tossed him out. And we found out how dangerous it became.

Uh... because they had to find a nice and tidy (and quick) reason for Harry and Cho to not date. It was quite brilliant how they did it, I thought. If you make Cho the snitch, then Harry can't date her anymore... even though it is later revealed it was Veritaserum, the damage is already done.

Harry has to be free to fall for Ginny in HBP.

As an excuse to break them apart, it was pretty good. But the original betrayal is not. They should have cast Marietta as a minor role there. Veritaserum?

Yes, Veritaserum... you know when Snape told Umbridge at the end that his stocks were depleated after using them on Cho?

You haven't heard of this thing called Veritaserum before?

Doesn't make sense. Here in the movie, Umbridge questioned numerous students. If she had used Veritaserum, why would Cho be the only one to tell the truth about the DA? Why not anyone else?

I don't think Umbridge had Veritaserum. In the book, Snape gave her a fake potion when she wanted to interrogate Potter. I believe the movie was the same, with Snape providing fake Veritaserum for the interrogations about the DA.

I think she may have caught on when the Veritaserum wasn't working on anyone. When Umbridge gets frustrated, especially in the movie, she makes her own way, and I wouldn't have been surprised if she busted into Snape's potions room herself for some.

Well, it wasn't exactly the same. Harry and Voldemort's wands completely connected and then a white shield formed over them. Dumbledore and Voldemort's wands met, but did not connect... there was magic flying all over the place from where they were hitting each other.

I don't remember how it looked in the GoF movie very well, but Voldemort's and Dumbledore's wands did connect briefly here. There was magic all over the place in their battle, and the other battles too, but the connection was different. At the start of their battle, there's clearly a red beam out of Dumbledore's wand and a green one out of Voldemort's, and the beams are connected for a while. Then Voldemort breaks the connection and creates his flame-snake.

No, they aren't connected, they merely meet in the middle, with magic essence (or whatever you want to call it) flying off from the point where the magic met. That's why Harry had to cower behind a wall... so he wouldn't get zapped by the magic flying off from the meeting point.

[Solver]

Maybe, maybe not. If you do two for OotP, then you have to do two, really, for HBP, and two for DH. It's not a good plan to split the book into two movies.

Maybe, maybe not OotP is the longest book, so any other book would be in less need of splitting. I obviously haven't read DH yet, but I think HBP can be done in a 2.5 hours movie. It better be 2.5 hours, not 2 hours, though.

Yes, I think obvious to someone who hasn't read the book either. I did go with people who didn't read the books... I don't think they thought Harry was still getting Occlumency lessons after Snape tossed him out. And we found out how dangerous it became.

Was it obvious to the non-readers that Harry's inability at Occlumency was, ultimately, what lured him to the Ministry? Just asking, it's hard for me to imagine what is and isn't obvious to a non-reader.

I think she may have caught on when the Veritaserum wasn't working on anyone. When Umbridge gets frustrated, especially in the movie, she makes her own way, and I wouldn't have been surprised if she busted into Snape's potions room herself for some.

That's quite an assumption. Wasn't hinted about in the movie, and didn't happen in the book. You can guess here, but I was fairly convinced that Cho decided to give up the info herself, and that Umbridge was using the fake potion all along.

No, they aren't connected, they merely meet in the middle, with magic essence (or whatever you want to call it) flying off from the point where the magic met.

That's also pretty much how I remember the visual effect when Harry's and Voldemort's wands connected in GoF. I may be wrong here, however.

[Imran Siddiqui]

OotP is the longest book, so any other book would be in less need of splitting.

But HBP is not far behind. Neither does it seem DH will be.

Was it obvious to the non-readers that Harry's inability at Occlumency was, ultimately, what lured him to the Ministry?

Well, especially after Harry was told that's what Voldemort wanted him to see, I think it was pretty obvious that if he learned what Dumbledore wanted him to (Occlumency) that wouldn't have happened (as it was hinted at earlier that Voldemort could abuse the link).

That's quite an assumption. Wasn't hinted about in the movie, and didn't happen in the book. You can guess here, but I was fairly convinced that Cho decided to give up the info herself, and that Umbridge was using the fake potion all along.

Well the "fake potion" in an of itself is an assumption in the world of the movie. No one who hasn't read the books is going to realize that Snape was giving Umbridge fake potion. That's only something that someone who has read the books will know and those that read the books will also know that Cho squealing was a deviation and thus why shouldn't the fake potion be deviated from as well?

That's also pretty much how I remember the visual effect when Harry's and Voldemort's wands connected in GoF.

I believe they just met and joined, and a great wind surrounded both Voldy and Harry. It wasn't like the Death Eaters were diving for cover from magical sparks, like Harry had to that the end of OOTP.

[Barnabas]

Reviews Ive read say the movie aint good, 2 stars out of 5

[Locutus]

Originally posted by hexagonian
I view the movies and the books as two separate entities.

So do I, except with this movie you can't. With this movie you can't possibly follow the story unless you've read the book first but at the same time the movie doesn't follow the book at all. They should either make the movie a story in itself or make it completely complementary to the book and not bother telling the full story but just show the best scenes from the movie in their full (CG) glory. For OOTP they did neither and went some kind of half-half solution, which doesn't work at all.

Though, from what I gather, the OotP movie is the shortest movie of all five. Go figure...

Yes, that's just plain weird. I think that with just another 20-30 minutes extra they could've turned this into a fairly cohesive story that would've worked well enough in its own right even if it wouldn't have incorporated absolutely everything from the books. That would've been the best approach IMO.

Rowlings does have a large say as to what is in and out of the movies. And remember that all of your mentioned 'underused' characters are somewhat minor in Book 5.

They give the books a lot of their flavour though, what's the point of making a movie if you're gonna take all the colour out of it and just show the dry (main) storyline?

Tonks/Kreacher will get fleshed out in the next 2 movies.

I seriously doubt Tonks will play any role of importance in the movies, which is a missed opportunity as she's one of the most interesting characters in the books. I doubt Kreacher will have much more than a cameo in HBP, what happens in DH of course all depends on Rowling...

Same with Percy and Bellatrix, I doubt we'll see much more of them in the movies unless they feature heavily in DH.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And contrary to Locutus, I thought the battle at the Ministry of Magic was VERY well done. The Death Eaters vs. the Order of the Phoenix was just some great action... especially seeing how the experienced wizards were effortlessly casting without saying the names of the spells and how they swept down from nowhere.

Please. The only spellcasting we saw was basically Harry & Sirius vs Lucius. Most of the other 'fighting' was just some weird smoky effect.

It was nothing like the dueling described in the book, and all of it was concentrated in a single empty (safe for the veil) room, rather than spread out throughout the various uber-cool rooms of the Department of Mysteries. It would've looked a hundred times better if they'd stuck closer to the book with the effects and the backdrop. I was really looking forward to seeing things like the time room and the brain room in their full glory...

If the rest of the movie would've been good I might not have minded too much, but they raced through the entire story to get to the Ministry scenes as fast as possible but then apparently don't have the budget to make those look anywhere close to as awesome as they should've been.

Sirius' death was also, IMO, well done... this time leaving no doubt he's gone.

That's exactly what was wrong with it IMO. If you haven't read the book you have no idea what that veil is even there for, it's just unnecessary decoration.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Solver
The attack on Mr. Weasley. Horrible. The attack scene is swift, but not particularly vicious. No real impression that he's near death.

Yeah, agreed there, that was much too understated. But I reckon they wanted to avoid too much violence in the movie to keep the rating low, which I can understand.

The dementor attack is the only part Locutus likes and I don't. This might be my purist nature creeping through, I don't like when they change things too much without the need - I didn't like how the Dementors seem to attack physically.

On the one hand I agree that that was kind of bad, but it was still one of the most kick-ass scenes in the movie as it was. If the rest of the movie had been better I'd probably have looked on that scene in a much worse light.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I thought it was good enough. The important point is that James wasn't the great guy Harry seems to think he was. And that was conveyed powerfully. James was a bully and a bully to Snape.

The person I was with who hadn't read the book didn't understand what that scene was about at all (he didn't recognise the Marauders). It's so short and poorly cut that, as with so much of the movie, it's only clear what happens there if you've already read the book.

Well, in having to cut a bunch from the movie, getting deep into how the DA was found out would have taken too much backstory to keep it under 2.5 hours. This way, the DA is found out and Harry has a good reason not to persue Cho anymore (even though later it is found out that she had talked under Veritaserum).

Having that be the end of the Harry-Cho relationship is an extremely bad cop-out IMO, one of the worst things about this movie. As Solver points out, they could've just as easily let absolutely anyone else betray the DA under the influence of Veritaserum, and instead taken at least one proper scene to deal with the Harry-Cho relationship, which is a very important part of Harry's development. Even as it was it's rather implausible that Harry broke off his relationship with Cho just like that, it should've been clear to him that she was forced into talking. Harry would've been interrogated himself as well and in the book he had no trouble recognising that Umbridge was using Veritaserum -- it was immediately clear to the audience (or at least those of us who've read the book) that Veritaserum was involved in those interrogations, so it's a hard sell that Harry wouldn't know.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by St Leo
Luna, who has glasses in the book, does not in the movie.

Luna merely has Spectrespecs in the books, not glasses

[Verto]

This movie, out of all the others, to be the most disappointing. The entire movie feels rushed. There were several key scenes I wanted to see fully realized on the big screen:

St. Mungos, with Mr. and Mrs. Longbottom, Professor Lockhart, more time spent on Arthur Weasleys attack and recovery.
More Snape!
Ron and Hermione being Prefects. Actually, how about more than the 30 seconds we got to see of Ron and Hermione?
More time on the Order of the Phoenix and 12 Grimmauld Place.
McGonagall being hit by 6(?) spells while Umbridge tried to get rid of Hagrid.
When Dumbledore and Voldemort are fighting, I was hoping for a lot more. The statues moving to protect Harry; the sense of fear that Dumbledore feels when Voldemort vanishes before 'possessing' Harry.

etc..

There is a lot of stuff, some more minor than others, that I wished could make it into the movies. I had really hoped we'd see an announcement about Harry Potter coming to HD-DVD as an Extended Edition, ala Lord of the Rings. I would love to see 30 minutes added to the films. Actually, I'd love to see an hour or two added to the films

[Solver]

Yes, that's just plain weird. I think that with just another 20-30 minutes extra they could've turned this into a fairly cohesive story that would've worked well enough in its own right even if it wouldn't have incorporated absolutely everything from the books. That would've been the best approach IMO.

Absolutely, another 30 minutes could have made it decent. That'd be enough time for some more explaining of things (such as about the prophecy or the Harry-Voldemort mind connection), and for some better emotional build up for certain scenes. Like Arthur Weasley.

I seriously doubt Tonks will play any role of importance in the movies, which is a missed opportunity as she's one of the most interesting characters in the books. I doubt Kreacher will have much more than a cameo in HBP, what happens in DH of course all depends on Rowling...

Same with Percy and Bellatrix, I doubt we'll see much more of them in the movies unless they feature heavily in DH.

Tonks clearly won't be important in the HBP movie. Her appearances in the book were not crucial to the plot, and are exactly the sort of thing they cut in the movies. Ditto Kreacher, although I'm fairly sure the movie will show that Harry now owns him.

Bellatrix is very important in DH, so we should see her in both remaining movies. That's good

It was nothing like the dueling described in the book, and all of it was concentrated in a single empty (safe for the veil) room, rather than spread out throughout the various uber-cool rooms of the Department of Mysteries. It would've looked a hundred times better if they'd stuck closer to the book with the effects and the backdrop. I was really looking forward to seeing things like the time room and the brain room in their full glory...

Yeah, I wanted to see some rooms, too. The time, planet or brain rooms, and the entrance hall with spinning doors. My other disappointment in the battle is that it seemed too easy for the kids. Luna got a bruised lip from being punched, and that's it for the damage on their part. In the book, Hermione was completely knocked out by some spell, Ginny broke an ankle, Ron went nuts after a brain attack, and Neville had a broken nose and suffered Cruciatus. The DA fought well, but the Death Eaters had them.

That's exactly what was wrong with it IMO. If you haven't read the book you have no idea what that veil is even there for, it's just unnecessary decoration.

We still don't know what exactly the veil and the archway are.

instead taken at least one proper scene to deal with the Harry-Cho relationship, which is a very important part of Harry's development. Even as it was it's rather implausible that Harry broke off his relationship with Cho just like that, it should've been clear to him that she was forced into talking.

They could even come up with another reason for them to break up. Cho could have said that maybe it's for the better that the DA was discovered. There sure are numerous possibilities.

McGonagall being hit by 6(?) spells while Umbridge tried to get rid of Hagrid.

Yeah, they missed the whole part with the teachers making it a nightmare for Umbridge. It was very well-done in the books.

Oh, and the scene after DA is discovered, when the Ministry wants to arrest Dumbledore. They showed Dumbledore disappearing with the help of Fawkes (reinforcing my feeling that Fawkes's transportation ability might be important in the last book), but it's a shame they cut the part where Dumbledore actually fought them. I was looking forward to Umbridge and Fudge getting hexed by Dumbledore on-screen.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Locutus
Please. The only spellcasting we saw was basically Harry & Sirius vs Lucius. Most of the other 'fighting' was just some weird smoky effect.

It was nothing like the dueling described in the book, and all of it was concentrated in a single empty (safe for the veil) room, rather than spread out throughout the various uber-cool rooms of the Department of Mysteries. It would've looked a hundred times better if they'd stuck closer to the book with the effects and the backdrop. I was really looking forward to seeing things like the time room and the brain room in their full glory...

If the rest of the movie would've been good I might not have minded too much, but they raced through the entire story to get to the Ministry scenes as fast as possible but then apparently don't have the budget to make those look anywhere close to as awesome as they should've been.

The only spell casting?! What? There were wizards all around Harry, Sirius, and Lucius casting spells, throwing sparks of light from their wands all around. And, realistically, while it would have been cool to see the other rooms, would they have really brought anything to the story, other than they were going through the other rooms? Losing the time turner room and the brain room really doesn't matter all that much. The battle in the one room was very well done... especially since it gave time for us to see the Prophecy room get blown to pieces in some great special effects.

That's exactly what was wrong with it IMO. If you haven't read the book you have no idea what that veil is even there for, it's just unnecessary decoration.

Oh... well please tell me what the veil is there for, since Rowling never explained that in the book.

[Solver]

Speaking of spells, I'm glad to see they got more right this time. At least Expelliarmus, the disarming spell no longer throws people backwards, like in the CoS movie. Though now the stunning spell does just that