Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix -- SPOILERS (film & books)

[Solver]

By he way, it doesn't seem to me that Gambon is the problem with Dumbledore. It's not the actor, it's the direction and screenplay. This movie's Dumbledore was FAR better than GoF, but is still a long way away from the kind and calm Dumbledore of the books.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, considering that OOTP's Dumbledore is a bit of *****, I don't think Gambon matching more with the Dumbledore of the book really says anything . In HBP, Dumbledore returns to the nice guy/ mentor and we'll see if Gambon can pull that off (same director for the HBP movie).

[Solver]

Even in OOTP, Dumbledore was always polite and pleasant. It takes a lot to piss him off, and even then he merely sounds angry. Well, this was an improvement of the GoF movie for sure, where he'd shout and grab people for nothing.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The only spell casting?! What? There were wizards all around Harry, Sirius, and Lucius casting spells, throwing sparks of light from their wands all around.

There was the occasional flash here and there but we didn't see any proper dueling, and in any event the whole thing only lasted about 50 seconds.

And, realistically, while it would have been cool to see the other rooms, would they have really brought anything to the story, other than they were going through the other rooms?

That's the thing, there WAS NO story. They seemed to race through to movie to just show off the coolest CG scenes but then didn't make those scenes look nearly as good as they should've been. I would've been perfectly okay with this fight if the rest of the movie had been a cohesive plot, but this had neither a compelling story nor anything particularly special in the SFX department. I expect at least one of those two from a movie like this (the first three HP movies had the former, GoF the latter), but I was disappointed in both categories.

Oh... well please tell me what the veil is there for, since Rowling never explained that in the book.

Whatever it is in the book, we know it's important and we know it kills. In this movie it was only decoration, it served no purpose whatsoever. It didn't even look very good. They'd have been better off setting the whole fight in the time room or something like that, at least that would've allowed for a much cooler backdrop and some awesome special effects.

[b etor]

the 4th movie was much better than this one was. i loved how luna and umbridge were played tho. and the weasleys' fireworks.

[Jaguar]

My opinions:

Short version - Imran's a fanboy

Long version -
Too short. There's no reason to condense the longest book into the shortest movie. The entire school year basically just disappeared. I'm not the sort who complains about specific scenes being missing, but there's plenty of good stuff in OOTP they could have used.

My personal choice would have been to add the St Mungo's scene. The attack on Arthur bit was rushed anyway, and the St Mungo's scene is one of the things that really makes Neville a compelling character. I think Kreacher's role in Sirius's death is also really significant and should have been kept if they were going to keep Kreacher at all. The whole thing about Harry being Kreacher's owner is going to be important in HBP, and they never showed why Harry would resent him so much.

As for something that specifically bothered me:
I thought Dumbledore's appearance at the Ministry was disappointing. I remember vividly from the book how the Death Eaters scattered as he arrived, and he just defeated half of them with a single wave of his wand. I remember how as Voldemort hurled curses at him and Harry, the statues sprang to life and jumped in front of the speeding hexes. The way Rowling described it was just so much more compelling than what happened in the film. I mean, really, Dumbledore conjured some sort of giant cloud of water? WTF?

I just don't think this movie was as imaginative as, say, PoA. And I think that's probably the most important quality in the Harry Potter series.

[Lonestar]

I must say, the gal that played Tonks is smoking.

[Solver]

And imagine what you could do with a Metamorphmagus

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Solver
And imagine what you could do with a Metamorphmagus

"Hey Babe...can you look like Jessica Alba tonight?"

[Will9]

I thought it was quite good although it was nearly as good as it could have been.

BTW, the battle was great in IMAX 3D.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just saw it again in IMAX 3d (and yes the final battle WAS great ), and have a few things to add.

After Harry saw Snape's encounter with his father, Snape unmistakably said "Your lessons are at an end", so it was obvious that Harry was not going to learn any more Occlumency and that was exploited by Voldemort planting an image in his head.

Oh, and the attack on Arthur DID look serious. You saw the snake attack Arthur, his face covered in bloody bites, and then Arthur, blood all over falling. It was quite obvious that he was close to death (or dying at that point).

There was the occasional flash here and there but we didn't see any proper dueling, and in any event the whole thing only lasted about 50 seconds.

No, there were snippets of duels, especially from Moody, Tonks, and Shaklebot. True, it was short, but they were there.

That's the thing, there WAS NO story.

Well, except for the fact that there was . A bit disjointed perhaps, but a clear story to follow nonetheless.

[q=Jaguar]I think Kreacher's role in Sirius's death is also really significant and should have been kept if they were going to keep Kreacher at all. The whole thing about Harry being Kreacher's owner is going to be important in HBP, and they never showed why Harry would resent him so much.[/q]

Well, they wanted to cut Kreacher, but Rowling, at the last moment, said, you may want to keep him in because he's important in the 7th Book. So Kreacher isn't fully fleshed out as a result.

Though they could make mention in the next movie that Kreacher was the one who informed the DE, after overhearing that Harry was the reason Arthur was still around.

I remember how as Voldemort hurled curses at him and Harry, the statues sprang to life and jumped in front of the speeding hexes.

Yeah, that I missed . Not sure why they cut that... they did show the statues though.

I just don't think this movie was as imaginative as, say, PoA.

NONE of the movies where. It's kind of why PoA is the best movie. It also had the biggest name director (Cuaron is brilliant).


Btw, I will say that it is amusing how movies are viewed by separate online communities. Straight Dope Message Board, which I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with, had just about everyone loving the movie with a tiny few disliking it. Apolyton seems to be exactly the opposite.

[Solver]

That's because the people at Apolyton are mostly mature, intelligent, boring curmudgeons

[hexagonian]

And after seeing it, I'm in agreement with the Apolytoneers.

It's not a bad movie, but it really fall short of the book - moreso than the previous 4 movies. I also feel that PoA was the best adaptation. That movie forced me to look at the book in a much higher regard than I did the first time I read it.

(GoF still remains my favorite of the books so far.)

Both books (GoF and OotP) are about the same length, but I felt that the scenes left out of GoF were acceptable to preserve the main story arc and the characters.

Not so with OotP. I felt rushed all the way through. I do understand the need for edits in a movie, but this movie could have sorely used an extra half-hour.

The discussion between Harry and Dumbledore at the end lacked any emotional impact whatsover, given Harry's frustration throughout the story that he (along with Sirius) has been shuttled off to the side by the Order.

They really missed a chance to present the symbolism of the statues (how the ministry liked to present to the public a unity of the magical races, but has failed miserably in practice - while Dumbledore has taken steps to close that fracture)

They had better pump up Kreacher's role in the next movie, because there is every indication that he is crucial.

Anyone reminded of Star Wars ep III (Emperor/Anakin/Dooku) when Voldemort taunted Harry to kill Bellatrix?

My biggest gripe though - Occlumency with Snape.

In the book, Snape stops the lessons with Harry because Harry went into the Pensive while he was out of the room - thus reinforcing Snape's extreme dislike of Harry (like his father) as someone who plays by his own rules. So when Snape ends the lessons for good, it is totally believable why he did so. And Harry doesn't show that he has mastered Occlumency (which the book goes into great detail about how little he cares for it), which leads to the tragic events at the ministry.

In the movie, Harry manages to fight back and invade Snape's memories, which gives the impression that Harry has managed to master Occlumency because he is able to break through the defenses of a very good Occlumentist.

That is a subtle, yet crucial distinction.

(Yeah, I believe Snape is ultimately good - we'll see next week, and I'll change this post to reflect that new reality if I am proven wrong...

[b etor]

)

i felt so bad for poor snape when they showed him getting picked on

[Imran Siddiqui]

In the movie, Harry manages to fight back and invade Snape's memories, which gives the impression that Harry has managed to master Occlumency because he is able to break through the defenses of a very good Occlumentist.

Actually, breaking through the mind's defenses is Legilimency, not Occlumency. Harry was just reversing (Protego was the spell, IIRC?) Snape's Legilimens spell. I think the way to see that is that Snape was taken by surprise and so couldn't raise is Occlumency defenses in time.