Polish aggressors siphon £1 billion out of UK economy

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Polish women are hot

Anyone who doubts this should google "Joanna Krupa." I'd post some pics, but I noticed Drogue hanging out in this thread.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Getting college educated workers is almost always a plus

As said, yes in the US, not so clear cut in the UK.

Originally posted by Oerdin
and most Poles have college educations.

Not the ones who move to the UK. Most Poles emigrating here are low skilled workers who end up in London doing relatively menial jobs. As you mentioned earlier, this can also be positive, in the

Originally posted by Oerdin
They help improve economic growth.

Per capita? Any evidence for that? Generally population growth is thought to have little effect on per capita economic growth unless either a) it's very rapid population growth, in which case it has a negative effect as the infrastructure isn't there to support the huge influx or b) they have a significantly different skill level than the rest of the population. Most immigrants from Eastern Europe are less skilled than the UK average. I fail to see any evidence or theory that supports the idea that this type of immigration aids per capita economic growth.

Originally posted by Oerdin
Plus in a generation or two people will intermarry and you wan't be able to tell someone who is half polish from someone who is entirely British in ancestry. They'll all look, talk, and dress alike.

Very true, although this simply removes some of the cultural reasons against, it doesn't provide a reason for immigration. And there are still problems for a generation of language, separation of communities, etc.

Originally posted by Oerdin
Enjoy having cheaper food and services provided by people willing to work cheaply.

This is the first relatively significant positive thing you've mentioned. However I feel it's far, far outweighed by the burden on public services, the lesser-education of Polish immigrants and the effect on housing costs in the UK, especially London.

In short, it's a balancing game - on the one side we have the effect of marginally cheaper services, and on the other more overcrowding, public services and housing problems. The general effect on per capita economic growth is negative.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Re services, given the demographic of the Poles and other economic migrants the public service requirements are quite low. Little of the £100bn NHS, little of the £80bn spent on education, they tend not to be drawing pensions, and aren't over for the unemployment benefits. There are local services, but they pay their council taxes.

It's 10-20 years down the line when demographics change that are more of a concern.

Exactly, I was referring to the long term.

[Dinner]

I'd hit it!

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'd hit it!

You can resize it too

[Dinner]

Happy?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Happy?

[Solly]

I find her sin colour unnatural, what's wrong with pasty white?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Doddler
I find her sin colour unnatural, what's wrong with pasty white?

Joanna's sin colour

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Drogue

US =/ UK in this regard. You have lower tax, less public services paid for by the taxpayer and less of an extreme demand for land. I agree, immigration in the US is generally of a positive effect. I'm a lot less inclined to agree that it has for the UK as well.

Well you'd be wrong.

There's been a wealth of research into migration from A8 accession countries, all of which has found no employment effects of migration, and a positive impact on growth (edit: saw your later post - yes it's per capita). Check out the IPPR website, and the HMT website if you want references, and there is a nice report published by DWP - author Sarah Lemos. There's also a literature on A8 migration and dependency ratios from a pensions perspective (where population growth is a clear plus) but I'm less familiar with that.

That's just the headline research, there's also stuff like BoE have regularly cited migration as keeping interest rates down.

As an economist you should be better than this.

[Dauphin]

What about future demographics. It's not apparent to me whether economic migration is good in the longer term. Surely it depends on things like how many kids these Poles are having, and whether they are staying in the UK at the end of their working lives or returning home.

[DrSpike]

Depends what you mean by good: from a purely economic perspective then no. Migrants are net contributors, and if they choose later to take whatever private or public (contributory) pensions with them back to wherever they hail from then it doesn't change anything.

From a wider distributional or cultural perspective then of course there are arguments against. But these are inherently subjective and each can draw their own conclusion.

[Cort Haus]

I don't see long-term demographic negatives with immigration itself, although a model of multiculturalism that promotes identity politics and seperateness, rather than common ground and integration, will not help. Many of us are descended from immigrants - it's been a defining point in the country's history.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that we must keep housing levels on the pace of any increase in population and in line with demand. That is an immediate and medium-term concern, which is not against immigration, but in favour of improving the infrastructure.

[Dauphin]

What about situations where migrants come over, have no kids and then just increase the aging population problem.

I agree that economic migration is good in the short and medium term for as long as they are economically active, but does that contribution turn into a negative once they are in their retired years - or are retired people still good for the economy.

All in all it's better, but is it front loaded such that in the end there is a tail off that is detrimental to the economy?

I'm concerned about the non-intuitive factors and unknown/unknowable data.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Dauphin
What about situations where migrants come over, have no kids and then just increase the aging population problem.

These things are difficult to predict, but Catholic Poles do tend to have more children that native Brits. As such, they're probably of greater economic benefit than your average Australian barman.