"We've invented adolescence, and stretched it out too far" says psychologist

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Again, I think your definition of 'productively' is more than a bit off. That being said, have you never seen summer educational programs? Athletics? Summer jobs? (Yes, even for children, particularly in rural areas...)

[ZEE]

while your ideas and direction are commendable JM, if they were implemented tomorrow we would be facing student revolts all across America... you have to consider how to overthrow the EXISTING social structure before implementing the new one...

Rome wasnt built in a day. pieceâ„¢

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Wycoff


I agree with you here. IMO, a six weeks of school- two weeks off year round approach would be better than what we currently have.

I think something like this:

Divide the courses into periods of 12 weeks (quarters). With holidays within, this would mean approximately 11 school weeks per quarter, with 1 week break + holidays. Each period would last until 5 pm or so, maybe even later (there is a big problem with people coming home from school at 3 pm and their parents not being their until 5 or 6 pm). Starting would be similar to now (7-9 am, depending). Part of the day would be focused on the basics: Reading, Writing, and Mathematics. The other part of the day they can pick courses for: (a particular) Science, History, Ecnomics, a particular Sport, Study Hall, Foreign Languages, etc, etc. Or even (at a point) advanced Math or English or Literature. A certain number of electives of different types would be required. I am thinking a little like highschool now, but starting at 1st grade.

This would allow self more direction then now, as well as being structured, and not making parents who work be at a disadvantage compared to parents where one stays home. Additionally, this would make sure that everyone could ge tthe needed (what we currently teach in 12 years) math, writing, and reading done in 9 years, as someone who is struggling would just be required to take study halls/get extra assistance in the electives.

The two biggest issues I think are the being treated like an adolesent in college, and not having school in the summer in middle school/high school. (In college summer should be used for classes or internships)

(I hate to admit it, but my summer after my freshman year I did nothing productive, I stayed at home and the only job I could find was washing dishes, some of this was that finding internship type things in my home area was difficult, some was that I was too lazy and didn't start looking for something useful earlier)

JM

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


I think something like this:

Divide the courses into periods of 12 weeks (quarters). With holidays within, this would mean approximately 11 school weeks per quarter, with 1 week break + holidays. Each period would last until 5 pm or so, maybe even later (there is a big problem with people coming home from school at 3 pm and their parents not being their until 5 or 6 pm). Starting would be similar to now (7-9 am, depending).

You've just increased the school budget by 50%

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Bauzer
while your ideas and direction are commendable JM, if they were implemented tomorrow we would be facing student revolts all across America... you have to consider how to overthrow the EXISTING social structure before implementing the new one...

Rome wasnt built in a day. pieceâ„¢

Implement year long schooling in grade school, and implement my ideas for college (and yes, this means more federal support available in college, since it would be available for everyone, not just poor people). In another decade or so, finish the grades 1-12 implementation (removing grades 10-12) and it will be changed. A gradual shift is needed towards the early education idea. Currently highschools can start actively looking for internships and the like for their students (I know they are somewhat suppose to now, but they really don't do much of this) for over the summer.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


You've just increased the school budget by 50%

I am happy with that. Note that I increased the budget for paying for college education also.

School budgets shouldn't be local also. You will have too many things like what happened in Oregon a few years back where the system ran out of money and school was let out a few weeks early. This is harming the students and society.

JM

[b etor]

my dad has treated my older sister and i as adults since we were very young. and look how i turned out.
umm ok look how my sister turned out!
we're very responsible whereas my younger siblings lack that.

[Jon Miller]

Assuming 10 hours in school (I actually think that 11 would be better), the average 6th graders day would look something like this: (each block is 50 minutes with 10 minutes class transit time)

Elective (let's say a Sport)
Writing
Mathematics
Lunch
Study Hall
Reading
Serious Elective (like Science)
Recreation (doesn't have to be outside)
Elective (like Art)

Things could be of course mixed up, but a few serious electives would be required each year (at least 1 science, at least 1 history, etc). If the student is struggling, then another Study Hall could be added.

A normal 3rd graders day would look something like this:

Writing
Recreation (doesn't have to be outside)
Reading
Lunch
Study Hall
Mathematics
Serious Elective (like History)
Recreation (doesn't have to be outside)
Elective (like Art)

Basically, for younger students Recreation would be more time of the day than for older students. So at the students choice, the 6th grader would have 0-1 hours of recreation while the 3rd grader would have 1-2 hours of recreation. Sports/Gym would be on top of that.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by b etor
my dad has treated my older sister and i as adults since we were very young. and look how i turned out.
umm ok look how my sister turned out!
we're very responsible whereas my younger siblings lack that.

Except for the sex thing, I think that you are reasonably responsible. Maybe if there was a different message there, you would be different there as well.

JM

[Dis]

having played computer games with 16 year old kids, I'm qualified to say they are dumb as rocks and too immature to hold a job.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


I didn't know a single child who used their summers productively. Ever.

JM

I used to travel with my family. Your system would have made that impossible.

I remember the months spent with my mother's side of the family (five sisters). It was great to spend the summer with my cousins, in another city. I wouldn't trade away those memories of childhood with my extended family for anything.

I've gone for practically four years without a real holiday, and there's one more year before I get another. There's more than enough stress and competition you have to face when you get into your +2 years. Once you get into tenth or eleventh, the next real holiday you have is after the second year of college.

[Jon Miller]

Oh, we should also teach programming and other such things earlier. We just had silly stuff through highschool when I was in school, but in the years since, the people I know who have gone on to comp sci (and did well, I think) have often did a decent amount of programming and the like stuff in grade school even.

JM
(my dad did teach me a bit of basic and the like in grade school, but the class (there was only one) was just a game until highschool, and even in highschool it wasn't a real education)

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by aneeshm


I used to travel with my family. Your system would have made that impossible.

There are the one week breaks. (4 of them, and they don't include holidays)

Also, I know people who took off a week from school, and could still catch up. Really only the mathematics, reading, and writing, is what should never be left off. The rest could have a break for even a whole quarter.

JM

[Patroklos]

I actually think that 11 would be better

A fifty-five hour work week? Don't some countries fight civil war over stuff like that?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Patroklos


A fifty-five hour work week? Don't some countries fight civil war over stuff like that?

With 1-3 hours of recreation (or sports) per day (for an 11 hour day) as well as 1 hour lunch, I don't think that is like a 55 hour work week. Also, it is what many people who are involved in after school activities already do...

Also, most 3rd graders wouldn't have any homework at the end of the day, and many 6th graders wouldn't either (most 7-9th graders would have homework to do outside of the school day with 1 study hall).

JM