Thank you G-D! Immigration reform bill is pulled....

[Patroklos]

You do know the bill in question was proposing how people who had broken immigration laws can pay a penalty and then how to move to a legal status, right?

Yeah, or more to the point how they can avoid paying the proper penalty, deportation.

We keep coming back to the practical no matter how much we attempt to avoid it. Namely, what can we really do to 12 million+ people?

Deport them. Why do people claim this is impossible, of course we could accomplish this. In fact, if we made it impossible to get jobs, a good half of them would leave themselves.

There is a difference between impossible and just not willing to do. You are basing your policy off a false premise, until you fix that there is no point in me softening the hard line even if I want to (and do).

No, there is no practical way to deport those 12 million people especially the ones with kids born in the US (which is the majority) so really WTF other choice do we have?

Deport the parents, they can do what they want with THEIR kids that THEY put in that situation. Kids do live in Mexico btw.

And the first immigration reform should be to axe that stupid "born in US territory automatically a US citizen" BS. What stupid ****er came up with that? Does any other country have such a stupid policy?

Don't be bothered with the facts though.

I haven't seen you state a single fact yet, only what you want to happen.

[Patroklos]

If you don't trust the government to enforce any laws then I suggest you go break the law and see what happens.

I think the 12 million current examples are enough.

then clogging jails and courts.

A good 5-10% tariff on Mexican imports should solve the funding problem for this, and probably cause the Mexicans to take care of our border security for us to remove said tariff.

[Barnabas]

Most countries I know of have that law, if you are born there you are of that nationality.

In the case of a country like the USA made of immigrants it makes absolute sense.

[Bosh]

DD is right, the only way to end illegal immigration is to come down HARD on the employers. Punishing illegal immigrants its stupid since they don't have anything to loose.

However companies that employ illegal immigrants have far too much power for them to get hit in any meaningful way in the forseeable future.

[Patroklos]

It makes absolutely no sense. The citizenship of your parents is what should dictate a childs citizenship.

If I have a job overseas do I have to fly my wife home to give birth so the kid doesn't end up with Spanish/Vietnamese/Saudi Arabian/Indian citizenship due to a technicality?

In the case of a country like the USA made of immigrants it makes absolute sense.

It makes even less sense here, where a 9 month pregnant Mexican can step a foot across the border, pop out her offspring, and now have a excuse to live here indefinetly. It works, just look at Oerdin.

License to break the law is all it is.

[Arrian]

****. I'm sure this bill wasn't perfect (they never are), but it sounded like it might have been the best shot we had at a reasonable compromise.

Now the problem will continue to fester under the old system, which is not enforced because it is unenforceable. Hurray!

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

DD is right, the only way to end illegal immigration is to come down HARD on the employers. Punishing illegal immigrants its stupid since they don't have anything to loose.

However companies that employ illegal immigrants have far too much power for them to get hit in any meaningful way in the forseeable future.

You should do both, but the more effective approach is this one agreed.

[Patroklos]

Now the problem will continue to fester under the old system, which is not enforced because it is unenforceable. Hurray!

What, specifically, is unenforceable?

[Arrian]

The aforementioned deportation of millions, for one thing.

Stopping all the border crossings, for another. Unless you seriously intend to deploy the National Guard along the border.

And of course the 800 lb Gorilla in the room is the economic implications of shutting off the cheap labor supply.

-Arrian

[Barnabas]

And also the political consequences in the countries those immigrants are from.

[Patroklos]

The aforementioned deportation of millions.

What makes you think that is unenforceable, or necessary?

If they can't get jobs, they will stop coming and many will go back. If they can't move their families, they will stop coming and many will go back. If the ones we find during normal operations are deported, no different than what we do now.

No need for a massive witch hunt. We are not talking about packing Mexicans into box cars and shipping them across the border. Just enforce the laws as violations are discovered.

[Patroklos]

And also the political consequences in the countries those immigrants are from.

Like take responsibility for the actions of their own citizens? Unthinkable!

I am serious about the Mexican tariff btw. Just estimate the costs associated with the illegal immigrants and tax accordingly

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Barnabas
And also the political consequences in the countries those immigrants are from.

That would be a good thing. Maybe there would be some change in Mexico if they didn't have the U.S. safety valve ready and willing to releave the Mexican government of their problem masses.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Barnabas
And also the political consequences in the countries those immigrants are from.

Sure, but I figured I'd go with the top three.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

That would be a good thing. Maybe there would be some change in Mexico if they didn't have the U.S. safety valve ready and willing to releave the Mexican government of their problem masses.

Very true, few people realize what a **** hole that place really is. But hey, why fix it when we can just leave?