Thank you G-D! Immigration reform bill is pulled....

[mactbone]

Originally posted by Patroklos

Well since we established that instant deportation is not what I said, again your cherry picked hypothetical is not relevant anything. But, you may note that all of that economic impact can be solved by the stream of legal immigrants around the world that respect our laws enough to apply and pay taxes when the get here. In fact, we could probably let as many legal immigrants in to match the number of unassimilated law breakers we return.

Wait, what? Ummm, no.

[Patroklos]

You took an oath to defend the Constitution, but you don't even know what's in it? I sure feel safe.

If I didn't know what it was, how could I have brought the very issue up. Nice Che

Should be /= is

Wait, what? Ummm, no.

Don't think there are enough takers? Hell, there are probably enough in Mexico itself to do a one for one.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Patroklos
But from DanS's example above, illegal immigration asside everything he describes is required already. You can't run a business legally without registering and paying taxes on it. So even if you are an illegal with a one man enterpise, the law snags you just as it would a citizen trying to run an under the table business and dodge taxes. They would just discover you were illegal at the same time.

How exactly does the law snag you? It's not as if the law enforces itself. Law enforcement doesn't tend to check up on casual work of any type (indeed, as pointed out above, casual work is explicitly exempted from many laws because at a certain point, it's a waste of everybody's time), and therefore will not bother an illegal earning his bread by casual work.

[Dinner]

Not if you charge them around $20,000 and have them wait an average of five years. That's what the realities of the legal immigration system are.

That's what is motivating people to go undocumented because the government's system is so broken you effectively can't do it legally. Fix the immigration system and you'll find illegal immigration stops or at least massively declines.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It depends if they're working under the table or not. If they're working at a big employer then they're likely using a fake social security number though most of the rest are paid in cash so they're not paying taxes.

Oerdin's right. If it's a big employer or a McDonald's-like chain, they'll be checking I.D.s, so the illegals will have fake social security cards.

But day-workers, nannies, gardeners, most garment shop workers? Naw. They're paid cash or they're "independent contractors" , so they're not contributing to Soc. Sec.

[Ramo]

Foreign poor people. I think of a genuine left as actually being composed of poor people, and so since foreigners dont vote, a real left in the USA would place the interests of American poor people ahead of the interests of both foreign poor and domestic rich, who are the groups that benefit from immigration of the poor.


I suspect the real politics behind favoring chain migration over skills migration is A. Current legal immigrants, who want to bring over their own relations B. Upper class liberals, whose hearts bleed for foreign poor as much as domestic poor, and who dont have their own class interests at stake. C. Middle class netroots types who want to exclude all those Indian programmers D. Union leaders, who figure most unskilled labor isnt organized anyway, and dont want to endanger their constituents in skilled labor unions.

Then why is it that, i.e. the SEIU is defending family reunification? There are social justice issues here that can offer greater motivation than crass protectionism.

From the POV of a pro free trader Id say this. We can push for free trade in all areas. We could push, as I presume you do, for free migration in all areas. But IF we are going to limit the quantity of immigration, whether out of a rational view of the limits on how many we can successfully assimilate/absorb per year, or in concession to xenophobia, THEN it would be most progressive (in terms of domestic income distribution impact) to let in the skilled. If we similarly had a limit on total imports we could allow, it would similarly make sense to let those imports made with more skilled labor. For the same reason.

I don't particularly disagree with any of that, though there may be issues with the rigidity of the system. The issue, again, is that I think that we have an interest in promoting family reunification. As the compromise stood one needed 55 points before family ties counted, a fairly high barrier.

[Krill]

Now I know how Kuci got the diety without actualy doing anything constructive. He's the forum equivalent of an arts major.

[Cort Haus]

How?

[Krill]

You seem to have a basic understanding.

[Drake Tungsten]

Thank you G-D! Immigration reform bill is pulled....

Oh, and Mickey Kaus...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Krill
Now I know how Kuci got the diety without actualy doing anything constructive. He's the forum equivalent of an arts major.

That's incredibly insulting to arts majors

[Drake Tungsten]

They deserve to be insulted, though.

[Dinner]

So the broken system will lumber on and nothing will change. Republicans clearly think making sure the system stays broken will piss people off enough to vote for them even though they're the ones who are insuring the status quo remains unchanged. Sad really.

[Drake Tungsten]

Very few people in the American political establishment, Democrat or Republican, want to fix the "broken system". If they did, they wouldn't push for bills that do nothing to solve the problems that make the system broken in the first place.