Thank you G-D! Immigration reform bill is pulled....

[Kuciwalker]

What?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ramo
On what basis do you say they voted based on concerns coming from the left? There are right wing Dems, you know.

Your own cite?

Originally posted by Ramo
All but 11 Democrats supported the move, but they, too, were holding their noses at provisions of the bill. Many of them argued it makes second-class citizens of a new crop of temporary workers and rips apart families by prioritizing employability over blood ties in future immigration.

[Ramo]

50 votes against cloture. There absolutely no chance that there were 10 votes against the bill from the left.

[Ramo]

Your own cite?

The cite's ambiguous about who were holding their noses (the 11 dissenting Dems or the Democrats in general - it sounds like the latter).

Edit: It's not ambiguous at all. It was pointing out the concerns of Dems in general.

[Ramo]

D votes against cloture:

Baucus (D-MT)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Landrieu (D-LA)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00206

I count two or three votes from the left (Boxer, Sanders, and maybe, but probably not, Dorgan).

And the 40 votes I cited earlier is of course dependent on the no-shows (Brownback, Coburn, Enzi, and Johnson) voting for cloture, which was a poor assumption (with the possible but unlikely exception of Johnson). In fact, there'd need to be a swing of 14 or 15 votes.

[Whoha]

They should have given this bill more time, in their rush they spooked right thinking Americans who would have otherwise supported the bill.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Funny how many of those on these boards who get all up in arms about illegal immigration don't seem to have similar L&O attitudes about pot or underage drinking and what not.

And Veyasen should take his white ass back to Europe.

My familly(both sides) lived in Spain for centuries, before the inquisition, so thats gotta make me somehwat hispanic heh .

Living in poverty sucks and if I was in some central or south american country, moving to the U.S. would proboably sound pretty good to me. However living in the U.S., I don't want to have to pay the price to help these people, especially when in the end, it will be more then we can handle and fundamentally change our country.

Law and order? Someone breaks a law? Prosecute them.

Underage drinking and pot? Decriminalize pot, or ban alcohol.

[Dinner]

Republicans have now pulled up the ladder and made sure there is no legal path to citizenship for around 12 million people. This just can't be good for the country.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
How do you plan to enforce those laws? Are you going to deport 13 million people? How the **** are you going to accomplish that? Now add in their kids (who are legal citizens of the US). And how the **** are you going to prove that some guy who's been living in the US for 10 years is illegal? Are you going to deport every Hispanic in the US who can't provide a birth certificate?

Believe it or not this is exactly what several people talk about on AM radio on a daily basis. I've heard people call in and say every "dirty Mexican" should be stopped in the street and deported if they don't have papers on them. There is a real ugly amount of racism mixed in with the backlash against immigration.

[Patroklos]

Yeah, who needs laws anyways?

So I suppose you don't give a **** about the wire tapping anymore right? Far less damaging than letting 12 million squaters through the borders.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ramo
D votes against cloture:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00206

I count two or three votes from the left (Boxer, Sanders, and maybe, but probably not, Dorgan).

And the 40 votes I cited earlier is of course dependent on the no-shows (Brownback, Coburn, Enzi, and Johnson) voting for cloture, which was a poor assumption (with the possible but unlikely exception of Johnson). In fact, there'd need to be a swing of 14 or 15 votes.

I'm real disappointed in these traitors especially Boxer as they're mainly reacting at of fear instead of any sort of idea about how the system should be reformed and made to work.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Yeah, who needs laws anyways?

So I suppose you don't give a **** about the wire tapping anymore right? Far less damaging than letting 12 million squaters through the borders.

You do know the bill in question was proposing how people who had broken immigration laws can pay a penalty and then how to move to a legal status, right?

We keep coming back to the practical no matter how much we attempt to avoid it. Namely, what can we really do to 12 million+ people? No, there is no practical way to deport those 12 million people especially the ones with kids born in the US (which is the majority) so really WTF other choice do we have?

Don't be bothered with the facts though. Keep harping and demanding and see what it gets you. Here's a hint it's a goose egg.

[DinoDoc]

Oerdin: What reason does anyone have to trust the government to enforce the new law if they refuse to enforce the old law?

[Dinner]

If you don't trust the government to enforce any laws then I suggest you go break the law and see what happens. The reason we have period acceptions for immigration is because at the end of the day the government would rather have those 12 million people paying taxes then clogging jails and courts. You know it; I know it and eventually these people will find a path to legalization because the government will have no choice. That's reality.

[DinoDoc]

If you don't trust the government to enforce any laws then I suggest you go break the law and see what happens.

I don't need to go out and test. I have historical evidence about what happens from the last time a grand comprimise was struck. A big fat goose egg.

Originally posted by Oerdin
You know it; I know it and eventually these people will find a path to legalization because the government will have no choice. That's reality.

Just as I believe in 20 years you and DanS will be trumpeting yet another grand compromise designed to solve the problem of illegal immigration.