Putin warns on U.S. missiles in Europe

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Only if drawing a line between capitals.

Missile systems don't all work along those lines.

Of course they don't. Still it is not reasonable to locate them too far from the expected trajectory of enemy missiles.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
"Washington says would protect against a potential threat from Iran."

What a BS! I perfectly understand the politicians must pretend it is deployed against Iran. But here at Poly we hold frank discussions, we don't need to pretend. So why can't you guys just acknowledge the simple fact that it is directed primarily against Russia?

Why? When has the USA ever been aggressive against Russia? Are you smoking crack?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Not the ones we know about, and once they have nukes is too late to begin preparing.

Very well.

Just acknowledge that the present deployment is a legitimate concern for Russia too.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


Why? When has the USA ever been aggressive against Russia? Are you smoking crack?

You don't use the appropriate way to approach the issue. "Agressive" is not the word here. There is such a thing as the strategic balance, which is shifted by this deployment.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Very well.

Just acknowledge that the present deployment is a legitimate concern for Russia too.

I can't grant that Russia's concerns over the deployment of defensive systems that would be ineffective versus Russian attack in NATO members is legitimate.

I will grant that Russians are anxious over losses in sphere of influence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. I think it's time to move on, but I understand that is hard for some.

[SlowwHand]

The USA, and I don't claim to speak for all certainly, but I would venture to guess that the average American today rarely has thoughts of Russia, in any regard.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I can't grant that Russia's concerns over the deployment of defensive systems that would be ineffective versus Russian attack in NATO members is legitimate.

Ineffective just for now. But with a potential to become effective in the near future.

I will grant that Russians are anxious over losses in sphere of influence after the collapse of the Soviet Union. I think it's time to move on, but I understand that is hard for some.

Now whatever problems you create can be written off for Russia's grievancies over the sphere of influence. How convenient!

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
The USA, and I don't claim to speak for all certainly, but I would venture to guess that the average American today rarely has thoughts of Russia, in any regard.

I would dare to say the average American is not quite the same as the American government.

[SlowwHand]

I don't know that I agree with you on that point, but you're welcome to it.

If it's not, it's no worse than any other and better than most.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Ineffective just for now. But with a potential to become effective in the near future.

I'll go out on a limb and say that the likelihood of a handful of missiles being tossed at Europe or North America by some wanna-be is a lot higher than the likelihood that the Yanks could develop a shield that would provide real protection versus the Russian arsenal of ICBM, SLBM, cruise missiles, and strategic bombers.

Now whatever problems you create can be written off for Russia's grievancies over the sphere of influence. How convenient!

I fail to see how NATO members defending themselves can be reasonably seen as problems created by anybody but Russia.

I do understand some of the Russian POV, but I can't accept that Russian misgivings about Poland and the Czechs defending themsleves and other NATO members are legitimate. These Russian protestations about other people defending themselves strike me as aggression.

[DinoDoc]

Meaningless threat since it takes all of maybe 2 seconds to change target info.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I'll go out on a limb and say that the likelihood of a handful of missiles being tossed at Europe or North America by some wanna-be is a lot higher than the likelihood that the Yanks could develop a shield that would provide real protection versus the Russian arsenal of ICBM, SLBM, cruise missiles, and strategic bombers.

This likelihood speculation cannot abrogate the legitimate Russian concern.

I fail to see how NATO members defending themselves can be reasonably seen as problems created by anybody but Russia.

I do understand some of the Russian POV, but I can't accept that Russian misgivings about Poland and the Czechs defending themsleves and other NATO members are legitimate. These Russian protestations about other people defending themselves strike me as aggression.

So now any arms race instigator can just put on a naive face and claim that he is just defending himself and he doesn't see what problem others may have with this... The problem is that the strategic balance ensuring the present equilibrium is destroyed.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Meaningless threat since it takes all of maybe 2 seconds to change target info.

It's psychological, not meaningless.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond

So now any arms race instigator can just put on a naive face and claim that he is just defending himself and he doesn't see what problem others may have with this... The problem is that the strategic balance ensuring the present equilibrium is destroyed.

Nothing about the present balance between Russia and the US/NATO is changed by a single AM base in Poland. If it comes to blows the world is still over.

The balance that changes is that a rogue state could now not be sure that a single missile or a small number of them will strike targets in NA or Europe.

[DaShi]

Raise your hand if you're worried about an attack from Russia.