Hindus forgetting the origins of.....

[Starchild]

aneeshm's poem reads like a botanical version of "God bless the squire and all his relations/For keeping us in our proper stations."

Or "Damn those uppity minorities, can't they just stay quiet and be happy with what we've allowed them to have?"

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Starchild
aneeshm's poem reads like a botanical version of "God bless the squire and all his relations/For keeping us in our proper stations."

Or "Damn those uppity minorities, can't they just stay quiet and be happy with what we've allowed them to have?"

The beauty of a market economy (which India became in 1991) is that nobody can "allow" or "disallow" anything any longer, specially to a religious minority (it is, regrettably, still possible to oppress, in non-market societies, such a rural India, the backward castes).

Considering that before the coming of the British, the Muslims were the elite, can we guess what happened? It won't take much guessing. Given their conservatism, they did not embrace the Western education the British brought, preferring instead to trust to their religious seminaries. They fell behind, and the formerly oppressed and poorer Hindus outdid them by far, so now we have accusations of bias hurled at us. Now how is it the fault of the Hindus, who built the new sections of the cities with their new wealth, that the Muslims refuse to move out of the old parts of the city, built by Muslim kings? Places like Old Delhi, Old Hyderabad, and mostly Old anywhere are Muslim dominated, and are usually behind other parts of the city in terms of development.

Now, we cannot make a blanket statement that all Muslims are like that. There are many who have tried, successfully, to join the mainstream. These are the ones whose religion is not noticed, the same way we don't notice the religion of a Jain of a Buddhist or a Parsee or a Sikh. But they are few, and liberal, and afraid to speak out.

[Perfection]

Originally posted by aneeshm

There is unrest in the forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the Maples want more sunlight
And the Oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the Maples
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the Oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light

But the Oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the Maples
Can't be happy in their shade?

There is trouble in the Forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the Maples scream "Oppression!"
And the Oaks, just shake their heads

So the Maples formed a Union
And demanded equal rights
"These oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light"

Now there's no more Oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw ...

So if I get you right, then by virtue of some inherant difference Hindus (oaks) deserve more resources (light) then others (maples)?

Bigotry at its finest!

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Perfection
So if I get you right, then by virtue of some inherant difference Hindus (oaks) deserve more resources (light) then others (maples)?

Bigotry at its finest!

Missing the point entirely

[Perfection]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Missing the point entirely

Well, maybe you should make it more clear then with a poem!

[aneeshm]

Let's take a hypothetical scenario.

Group A embraced the new economy, and built a huge building.

Group B didn't, and still lives in a small building.

Do you pull down the tall building, or do you convince the people in group B to embrace the same things group A have, and thus make another tall building of their own?

[Perfection]

Maybe Goup A after taking the money of group B should give some back so that group B can afford a bloody crane for thier big building.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Perfection
Maybe Goup A after taking the money of group B should give some back so that group B can afford a bloody crane for thier big building.

Group A didn't take the money from Group B, which was, BTW, richer than A to begin with, they simply created wealth, by embracing the new, more efficient system of education, which B did not embrace, due to their own reasons. What do you do now?

As a counterexample, we have Group C, which is even more of a minority than Group A, but is far more affluent, because they, too, embraced the new education. So had a similar Group D and Group E.

The wealth disparity has increased after 1991, IIRC, because the market amplified the negative effects of a lack of willingness to embrace modern education. How did it amplify it - by making everyone except Group B richer, who resolutely refused to meet the market on the new terms. The market also lessened their relative competitive ability, as others gained it in higher measure.




Lack of education can cause big problems. Let me take a concrete example. The government runs a polio eradication program for infants, where they provide free immunisation to infants. The Mullahs, however, scare their people into believing that those drops will actually sterilise them. Because of that, a few people are not immunised, so polio remains a problem for the entire population. If those people could be convinced, then polio could be eradicated completely. This is how a small number of people can cause huge problems for everyone, just because of a lack of proper education.

[FrostyBoy]

Interesting.

Are there any/many atheists in India?

Is evolution or any part of it taught in the schools or universities?

The reason I ask these two questions is because it is quite clear to me that it is religion that is the root cause of all these problems.

edit: (another question )

Why is Krishna blue? And why does he have many girls around him? Are they his sisters?

Maybe we can all come together to get rid of religion by treating them as myths. It's like Superman, it has good mythology, one that you can partially follow, but you know not to take it too seriously.

edit 2:
Sorry, I've been meaning to ask you these questions for quite some time now. Do you actually live in India? If so, what city? And are you one of those rich Indians who live in a mansion?
I'm thinking of popping over to India next year, I actually want to take the new railway from Beijing to Tibet and from Tibet down to India, but I heard its scary as hell in some parts of the mountainous area.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Sn00py

Interesting.

Are there any/many atheists in India?

Very few. But among my peers, there are a lot of people who are practical agnostics - they don't really care. India is, BTW, the most religious country in the world - 98% are religious.

Originally posted by Sn00py

Is evolution or any part of it taught in the schools or universities?

Of course. What a ridiculous question. There isn't even any controversy over it.

Originally posted by Sn00py

The reason I ask these two questions is because it is quite clear to me that it is religion that is the root cause of all these problems.

Religions which do not allow their adherents to modernise do actually contribute to lopsided development.

Originally posted by Sn00py

edit: (another question )

Why is Krishna blue?

It's a tradition in art. Actually, he's dark, or black. You'll notice that the blue is just a tinge, over a black background.

Originally posted by Sn00py

And why does he have many girls around him? Are they his sisters?

No. They're his admirers and sometimes lovers.

Originally posted by Sn00py

Maybe we can all come together to get rid of religion by treating them as myths.

Umm..... we already do.

The orthodox Hindu position is that the myths are true, but that ultimately it's irrelevant whether or not they're true.

Originally posted by Sn00py

It's like Superman, it has good mythology, one that you can partially follow, but you know not to take it too seriously.

The mythology is more than just that, actually. It's difficult to explain, but it's the foundation of the entire old common culture. You don't have to even believe it in order to accept it.

Originally posted by Sn00py

edit 2:
Sorry, I've been meaning to ask you these questions for quite some time now. Do you actually live in India?

Yes.

Originally posted by Sn00py

If so, what city?

I've lived in two cities - Indore and Pune. I'm located in Pune since the last year.

Originally posted by Sn00py

And are you one of those rich Indians who live in a mansion?

We're solidly upper middle class. We have our own house, but it isn't a mansion by any stretch.

We're around the 70th percentile, I guess.

Originally posted by Sn00py

I'm thinking of popping over to India next year, I actually want to take the new railway from Beijing to Tibet and from Tibet down to India, but I heard its scary as hell in some parts of the mountainous area.

I don't know much about that, except that the North-East is violence-prone.

[FrostyBoy]

Only girls admire Krishna? And why do they admire him? Why can't they admire poor little me? Does Krishna think he's better than me? Are the girls virgins? Is Krishna a virgin? And why do the girls all look the same?

[joncha]

Rush
aneeshm

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Sn00py

Only girls admire Krishna?

Only women and girls admire him as a lover.

Men appreciate him for his other qualities.

Originally posted by Sn00py

And why do they admire him?

Because, even after something like 3000 years, he's still just cool?

Originally posted by Sn00py

Why can't they admire poor little me?

Do I really need to answer this?

Originally posted by Sn00py

Does Krishna think he's better than me?

He's God incarnate.

Now you decide who's better.

Originally posted by Sn00py

Are the girls virgins?

I don't really know, but it's not necessary that they be.

Originally posted by Sn00py

Is Krishna a virgin?

Hell NO!

Originally posted by Sn00py

And why do the girls all look the same?

They don't. Are you basing this on the photo I have in my avatar?

[FrostyBoy]

Yeah I am basing it on your pic, I am very interested to learn, I find the whole thing bizaare, all the images, gods, etc. It's a very... how do I put it.. Fantastical?

I am currently living with 3 Indians now, they have elephants and women all over the place. They even have a small shrine which they go to and ring a bell for fricken ever in the morning. Oh well. Their food is nice.

[FrostyBoy]

And how can you beat this?