The Voter Fraud Fraud

[Dinner]

Originally posted by rah
But I will admit that more anti-machine candidates were elected to the city council, so it must be getting somewhat better, but there were still way to many wards where you had to scratch your head and say WTF.

I imagine there is some level of fraud. In any large organization you're going to get bad apples and those bad apples need to be rooted out.

[Dinner]

Well, it is done. Despite all the academics admitting there wasn't a case the Republicans have lied and pushed throw an official document claiming voter fraud is so wide spread that new laws restricting the right to vote need to be enacted. I have no doubt that partisan fools in state house's across the country will now use it to justify disenfranchising more blacks and Hispanics. That's just what Republicans do.

[DaShi]

They have to stick to their ideology.

[*End Is Forever*]

I've flicked through this thread, and I've gained nothing other than the impression that US democracy is rotten to the core. The way in which your democratic services are politicised would be embarassing in a banana republic.

One look at the congressional district boundaries could tell you as much. Outrageous on all sides.

[Perfection]

Maybe democrats and reoublicans are both in on it and this is their way of keeping it a two party system.

[Dinner]

I'd love a third party or even more. That way when the established players get to corrupt we have a viable alternative.

[DaShi]

A third corrupt party?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by rah
But I will admit that more anti-machine candidates were elected to the city council, so it must be getting somewhat better, but there were still way to many wards where you had to scratch your head and say WTF.

Makes me wonder whether there's just a second machine (the union machine) that's doing the same stuff...

[Slaughtermeyer]

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
I've flicked through this thread, and I've gained nothing other than the impression that US democracy is rotten to the core. The way in which your democratic services are politicised would be embarassing in a banana republic.

[snoopy369]

Are we more corrupt than you, or just better at catching it?

Power corrupts, plain and simple. Unfortunately anywhere you have the chance for a group to get a little more power, they tend to take that chance... honestly I can't figure out why we haven't gone to all-digital voting here, that would be simple to verify voting procedures were followed, and you could set it up so that individual voters could verify that their individual vote was tallied correctly [while still maintaining voter anonymity). The security would be a pain in the @#$^#$, but you could do it. (Actually, the security for the voting itself would be simple - don't use the internet, but instead separate dedicated lines; combined with hardware chip verification of connected machines and then matching up voters to a SSN list of eligible voters, this part at least would be secure, as long as no internal fraud occurred).

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Are we more corrupt than you, or just better at catching it?

It has nothing to do with being more corrupt as individuals. It has to do with the politicisation of the electoral process. This comes from:

1) The election of judges
2) Political appointment of other electoral officials

The American paranoia about bureaucracy puts organisational questions into the hands of the parties. Seriously, as EiF pointed out, take a look at the gerrymander present in US boundaries and compare to boundaries in other countries.

There is always going to be election fraud, but your system puts professional politicians in charge of detecting and eliminating it. Our system puts professional bureaucrats in charge.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by snoopy369
honestly I can't figure out why we haven't gone to all-digital voting here, that would be simple to verify voting procedures were followed, and you could set it up so that individual voters could verify that their individual vote was tallied correctly [while still maintaining voter anonymity). The security would be a pain in the @#$^#$, but you could do it. (Actually, the security for the voting itself would be simple - don't use the internet, but instead separate dedicated lines; combined with hardware chip verification of connected machines and then matching up voters to a SSN list of eligible voters, this part at least would be secure, as long as no internal fraud occurred).

Or you could just eliminate machines entirely and have hand counting of paper ballots with multiple scrutineers present.

[KrazyHorse]

While you're at it you should also place federal agencies in charge of federal elections. I understand the historical reasons behind the current patchwork system, but you tend to see more corruption at smaller scales..