Are scientologists slacking off on their job?

[Pekka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itujmcsinpw&mode=related&search=

I think we've all seen this. It's funny how this one guy pops up in every single video.

I can see a particularly bad brainwash on him. He tries to use similar ways of intimidating that was used for him when brainwashed, that is reflection. It's a very common and known way to communicate with people, except this guy is horrible at it, so he comes out as weird. But it seems to me he's had some 'training' on it, except he is exceptionally bad at it. You're not supposed to notice it.

I mean, reflecting is pretty simple. You determine the person you are talking to, you determine basically the way that person communicates, and then you do the same. This doesn't mean repeating what he says. It means coming to his level of communication.

FOr example, if you use words like "I feel like.. ", then most likely that person uses similar phrases a lot. This is in most cases true. People reflect their senses in the communication, so you want to use similar kinds of phrases back.

Or "I see that.. ".. so that would be using visualization. This is usually always unconscious, but if you have some experience, you can pick it up on others. The last would be "I hear that...". And that's sound. Yeah.

So, you want to determine what kind of phrases the person uses in order to figure out the way they think in terms of putting their senses in.

Now, that's one thing, others are to use similar tone of voice, speed, similar patterns etc. It's basically just to map out associations and alter your own communication accordingly, so you have a higher rate of success when trying to connect with that person, as in they feel positively about you.

THis is one of the basic things good interrogators would know and be good at, another thing is if they want to do it personally. But they know about it. It's not a magic thing, it just makes the situation more comfortable for the other, so maybe you can establish some sort of trust or at least a positive feeling. So you can then strangle them to death.

Anyway, to mee these guys seem like victims of cognitive tweakings. One thing is weird. This kind of stuff doesn't happen by telling stories about xenu. Ok, you need to go Pavlov style. So I don't know how that has happened, but it's clear it has happened. Be it through thinking "exercises" or similar things. This would be called brainwashing.

But I'm interested seeing it in their behaviour towards others. They are the victims clearly in thise case, since it is not in their conscious mind to realize their own condition or what they're doing or how they are behaving.

Fascinating.

[Elok]

I don't have sound and your post didn't clear it up any. What's this about? The stunted speech patterns of Scientologists? That has a lot to do with their peculiar use of tons and tons of jargon like "beingness," "downstat," etc. Operation Clambake ( www.xenu.net ) has a glossary of Scientology terms, it's enormous.

They're expected to communicate in CoS jargon among other Scientologists (for the reason why, see Orwell's "1984"), and the bulk of their communication is within the org. Normal English is almost like a foreign language to them. When they try to speak it, the rigid structure of Scientologese gets imposed on their English as a matter of course.

[Elok]

Oh, and in a sudden, inexplicable fit of dyslexia, I originally read this thread title as "Are Scientologists jacking off on their slobs?" And I thought, "If by 'slobs' you mean the lower grades and preclears, yeah, probably..."

[Pekka]

No no, you don't even need sound really. They're not doing it because in order for you to do it, you need to be aware of it. It' slike you can't be singing unless you try to sing. But these are, IMO, indications of these cognitive tweakings done to them and that's how it looks like when you're brains have that filter, it's like a Boolean filter with true and false values. Everything that has anything to do with it being weird or wrong is false and everything else is true.

I wouldn't call it self deception as much as I'd call it cognitive tweaking. That's how you get these weird reactions. You see with every story the camera dude gives, like 'this and this died and it was the fault of the chruch because'.. You see that they are actually processing what was just said, and blank denied also, inside their head, not in their response, but in their head. That's the filter working, it's kind of visible with these people.

Of course there is the importance of language. As you see, when any language started in the printing press, I mean as they started doing printing press, it was improtant to choose which dialect gets chosen. Because that will be the default, and that will "normalize" people into it, and that affects how people form their thoughts when they put it into words, in other words, it has a great effect, so they had a big decision to make.

So I wouldn't be surprised at all that it's not so much about teaching about xenu and all these thetans, it's more about indoctrination to certain kind of behaviour. That would be done through repetition, playing with semantics and installing circular logic.

[Kuken]

Their eyes look dead

[Pekka]

Yeah, like the living dead

[Meticulous Man]

Interesting and funny video

[Meticulous Man]

Is the guy in the third video Pekka? He keeps accusing the guy with the video camera of racism.

[Pekka]

The third video is funny with the guy crying that he was attacked and his foot hurts

[Seeker]

Scientologists follow the basic pattern started by 18th century gospel 'tent revivals' in the states, advertising companies in the 20s, and the nazis in the 30s for their indoctrination.

L.Ron Hubbard created Scientology from several sources:
-The cranky late 19th/early 20th century american 'alternative medicine' movements and their associated shysters
-His association with Aleister Crowley's "Ordo Templis Orientalis" group of occult oddballs assembled to support Crowley's dope habit.
-His own extensive experience with fraud and 'confidence' cons.

1. Identify and 'adjust' the message for your target audience, i.e. 'Jesus was so great! for christians, etc.' Tell 'em what they wanna hear.

2. Lovebombing: Used by finer cults everywhere..."I've never found people so full of joy and so totally accepting! It was the family I never had"

Other stuff used in parallel:

-Creating an 'Us against the Evil World' mentality
-Creating a 'Secret Code' (a shared symbology)
-Repetition
-Creating intricate and seemingly purposeless hierarchies, the purpose of which is to get individuals used to systems of conformity
-Gradually forbidding or circumscribing the targets freedoms (dress, food, excercise, sex, etc etc)
-Low=protein diets
-a successive ladder of success/revelation for initiates to 'go up' wherein the 'end-goal' is always just within but just out of reach. Allow in-group members to feel superior about ascending this meaningless structure (i.e. who is 'Anointed', in the 'Inner Circle', etc, Operating Thetan, etc)

Interestingly, there are many other groups which I would describe as cult-like, eg Amway. But Scientology, as the bizzare moneymaking con started by an irredeemable BSer who fell for his own propaganda, is brutal and murderdous.

People have probably been murdered or died of neglect in Scientologies 'RF' Re-education/punishment centers, and on the 'Sea Org' (the SS of Scientology are called the Sea Org). cruise ship.

Scientology, as a belief, is stupid and often has highly damaging impact on members/targets mental health.

Scientology, as an organization, should be as illegal as the Cosa Nostra.

[MRT144]

OMG! WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES!

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Seeker

Scientology, as a belief, is stupid and often has highly damaging impact on members/targets mental health.

Scientology, as an organization, should be as illegal as the Cosa Nostra.

QFT.

Unfortunately, they know very well how to deal with critics:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/6655207.stm

[Pekka]

Seeker, I'm familiar with 'lovebombing'. I don't know why my security studies have included all this stuff, like pseudostuff. Social psychology and all this stuff, but basically just to scratch the surface and to recognize valid theories and frameworks (since I deal spesifically with deception in the field).

So lovebombing is a way to first of all have a person feel accepted. This is what all groups are about when inducting a new member. We care about you. A person might never have felt such unconditional affection from others who are strangers. It feels good. Of course the idea of lovebombing is to control it, that is, it won't last forever. When you are 'in group', you just turn it off. That is, this is the way yous hould think or this is an issue you should agree with us, or basically there's no love. Unconditional phase has been long gone at this point.

Basically it's just a way to control your emotions and trigger what we want from uncertainty to feeling of being accepted and the feeling of been rejected. This is what interrogators might do in a more heated situations, establish trust and take it away, repeat x 1000. Common with torture. A way to establish yourself as the life line for a person. "I'm the only one you have, literally".

I agree with you Seeker. I don't think Scientology is a religion, thus it doesn't necessarily enjoy the benefits of freedom of religion. It's a scam, but I don't think it really fits the idea of a religion either, so it might not have to be protected.

OK first thing is that you have to pay. Well that's the scam, but in religion, you don't have to pay. You can make donations though... but in Scientology, you have to pay in order to advance, this is how I understand it.

And your advancing is basically done by behaviorial training, in this case brainwashing and through manipulation. It's not that they believe in a deity or set of rules, it's that they have to align themselves with the organization that demands payments. Any religion should be transparent. Scientology isn't, it's secretive. If you have to "buy the truth" with the money, it isn't a religion as we know it or should accept it. So yeah, it's a scam, and if it isn't protected by freedom of religion, it should be investigated and pursued with every possible mean that the criminal law gives us.

But of course it's not this simple. If it was, it would have been banned already.

[Ecthy]

I like science, also cognitive science and psychology. I hate when people manipulate people by using the findings from those sciences in their own agenda. The Nazis did it and Scientology does it too. What we need to do in order to counter these tendencies is to educate people so they're not all so vulnerable. But then how do you make lower income class people without a culture of education aware of processes in their head?

[FrostyBoy]

Just like all religions; they never get to the point. How can intelligent people take you seriously if you can't get to the point?