German Army: Pretend you're shooting black people.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I remember reading somewhere about Engels saying "An army, that didn't fight in a war for 30 staight years, begins to decompose itself". I believe he is right, and this army didn't fight even longer. Does anyone wonder why it's completely ****ed up?

And it has been in the news, just nobody gives a **** aber this laughing stock of the nation anymore.

You're not counting actions like the balkans or afghanistan?

[Pekka]

My point is, if it was more generic, as in black guys come to you, shout things, act. Now, that I would consider racist.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Cant they come up with more politically correct imaginary targets to shoot at like I don't know NATZIS or something...

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Pekka
I'll give you a two part answer, since you want to find out. First off, why did they chose Bronx and not say.... Somalia, or other African country? Why Bronx and not Long Island? It's because Bronx gives us Europeans a certain image, now I don't know what it gives to Greeks, maybe you have banned the word Bronx already.

So, there's this image of gangsters, dangerous area, the whole rap video thing. So, in this image, they're rolling with guns and vans and trucks. Then thre's the other part, where white kids all over the world tries to dress like the rap video people, talk like them, and it's a bit silly most of the times for these 13 year old suburban kids.

And an image is created, because it is imitated and it is popular culture and on top of it right now, the whole gangster image and thing, it also becomes a target for joking.

The image can be multifold, it can make fun of the 'we're bad boys' image, where they're the baddest, so to professional soldiers that's kind of funny already. Maybe this is something you were completely alienated from, or something the Greek army tries not to do, to make soldiers at least a bit professional. Or maybe jokes were just not allowed there at all, who knows.

Why did the guy have to yell motherfukker louder and louder? Maybe because it was a joke, should be obvious at this point. So why should they yell this? Because it emphasize that it IS a joke, and it brings in the others as well, so they can be in the joke, so it's a big joke.

Then, considering it IS the army, the jokes might be a bit harsh. Tasteless? Might be. Racist? You have to have bit more than this to make it a racist event.

The second part of the answer is coming soon.

my question was what jokes you did in the army not why you think the german video shows an "army joke"

[Pekka]

What jokes were done in my service time? WHat, do you want some kind of a list? Mostly our target enemies were people from the east, mostly from Russia, but sometimes from other eastern european places and Asia.

[Tattila the Hun]

19 year olds in large group. Of course it's a joke. Besides, I fathom the recruits were also supposed to be black gangstas, from a rival group. I mean, who else would be armed to teeth in New York, and be the target of verbal abuse?

[MarkG]

and finally after a lengthy process....

Originally posted by MarkG
so what race did you joke about pekka?

Originally posted by Pekka
Mostly our target enemies were people from the east, mostly from Russia, but sometimes from other eastern european places and Asia.

[Ari Rahikkala]

I believe that conscript armies in democratic countries actually require humour in order to survive. It builds up community spirit among the conscripts, which in turn leads to all those situations that people will have fond memories of... which, in turn, will keep them from voting to get rid of conscription once they have to consider the welfare of their own kids. Those instructors weren't selected for their skills in comedy, though, so you have to tip the scales in their favour by giving them creative freedom... and yes, that means the freedom to make racistic jokes.

At least the smart ones among the conscripts understand that they're only in jest anyway. Pekka and Tattila certainly did, and I never minded when our squad leaders told us to imagine we're shooting Russians, or Swedes, or moomins, anything they'd come up with. Then again, this *is* an internet forum, and I'm pretty sure we *are* the smart ones - and I never asked the slow guys what they thought about the jokes.

So, yeah, perhaps it's immoral, perhaps some dumb private will actually take it seriously. Still, I'd say it's safe to assume this kind of thing is nothing out of the ordinary, perhaps even universal to conscript armies. While some Sharpton tries to turn this one into a scandal, there's thousands of similar ones going on elsewhere and all they actually seem to be doing is making conscription more bearable .

[Pekka]

Well, if someone takes that seriously, they're in the wrong place. The argument that there shouldn't be that kind of jokes to begin with is lost with me. IT's back to playing with the rules the weakest link set up. There's lots of offending stuff in the army. SUre there must be a line drawn, but I think the harsh jokes are fine, it makes the day a bit funnier and the stuff you do, well the time passes easier.

Sure, this example is a bit extreme. But considering the context and the environment, it's normal. It's all about how it is set. If there was a real racist intention behind this event, it would be different, but since it's just jokes, I don't see what the big deal is. I mean a PC police in army? Are you kidding me?

OK, take the topic alone without the context. It seems pretty nasty, and it would be, if it wasn't a joke. Or if it was a generic joke, it would be totally different. If we want to keep the racism in check, I think we should focus on cases with real racism involved. It still can be offensive, but it doesn't make it a big case. If we had the same PC police watching what we did, we'd be all in jail if these are the standards. There were lots of super harsh sexual jokes, and there were women around who were also serving. Some of then MUST have been a bit offended by it, even though a good plenty understood it's not to be taken too seriously. And if you want to take everything seriously, like I said, it's the wrong place to be. Turn off TV, don't listen to the radio, never surf the internet.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Geronimo
You're not counting actions like the balkans or afghanistan?

No, that can hardly be considered fighting. It's adventure holiday at the taxpayer's expense.

[Az]

if he was shooting at jews it would've been funnier.

[Harovan]

Don't give them ideas!

[Pekka]

Az, that would be a very different context though.

[Az]

it's the silliness of it all, really.

[BlackCat]

Just saw the clip on local telly - hearing german soldiers yelling "mutterfukker" is hilarious - doesn't exactly have the same effect as when done by a yank or brit.