How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Yep. One of them being that it is roughly ten times less efficient than vegetarian food. But let's not go there - I'm trying to focus on moral and ethical arguments here.

Yeah, but we are incapable of digesting grass for example whereas cows are. So we could eat ten times more grass than beef but we wouldn't get anywhere near as much energy out of it, in fact probably expend more energy digesting than what we would absorb.

[Dinner]

I think I'm ging to go to that German butcher shop for lunch. They do the best slow smoked beef tri tip I've ever had, bar none. They have this massive smoker out in front of their store and cook the meat for hours and hours. It's fantastic.

[Dinner]

BTW pigs don't eat **** in nature. They only do that when people lock them in small areas and only give them junk to eat.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Yeah, but we are incapable of digesting grass for example whereas cows are. So we could eat ten times more grass than beef but we wouldn't get anywhere near as much energy out of it, in fact probably expend more energy digesting than what we would absorb.

and if the level of beef consumption ever declines to the point where most beef is more or less completely range fed, that would be relevant.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin
BTW pigs don't eat **** in nature. They only do that when people lock them in small areas and only give them junk to eat.

werent pigs historically range fed too, mainly in woods rather than grasslands?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I have a jar of borscht in the cupboard. Its vegetarian.

(OMG!! LOTM took the borscht reference hyperliterally! Someone act fast, before all figurative speech is permanentely deleted from western civilization - or get LOTM treatment for his obvious autism!)

Unlike rustic borscht, that's terribly strained.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

werent pigs historically range fed too, mainly in woods rather than grasslands?

Not sure.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


http://www.islamveg.com/

Oh, lord.

Yes, some Muslims are vegetarian. Some make and drink beer and wine.

Some manufacture slivovitz and go to Midnight Mass.

Most don't, in my experience, and most Muslims aren't vegetarians.

For once, you're right,

Keep trying, one day you will be too.

The Jains had these injunctions long before Christ or Mohammed or the Buddha came on the scene.

And ? The Jains aren't strictly speaking Hindus, are they ?


So the reasons for Jains abstaining from certain foods might well be different.

After all, Hindus used to have animal sacrifices, didn't they ?

The Kashmiri Pandits inherited the knowledge of medicinal values and aromatic qualities of different spices and condiments from ancient Sanskrit texts. A class of traders called Buhuer sprang up in due course to deal especially in spices and medicinal herbs, roots, seeds and minerals — hing or asafoetida is the one used most generously in Pandit cuisine. Saffron, lotus stem, ginger powder, fennel, turmeric, and mavval or seeds of the cockscomb are the often-used ingredients. Traditionally, Pandit cuisine is devoid of onions, shallots, and garlic. But Kashmiri Pandits do eat meat. "We eat only sheep meat and fish, because these are considered `clean' meat — sheep only eat green leaves and fish eat seaweed or smaller fish that feed on seaweed," explains Chef Kachroo.

[on the other hand...]

The Muslim cuisine is rich in onion, garlic, and the mild-mannered but fiery-looking Kashmiri mirch.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/03/20/stories/2003032000980200.htm

The Stinking Rose in San Francisco, where their garlic is flavoured with food.

And very tasty it is too.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Oh, lord.

Yes, some Muslims are

If you click on the link, you will find some very interesting discussions of quranic and other quotes wrt compassion towards animals, appropriate limits on meat eating, etc that are quite applicable to non-vegetarians.

[Lul Thyme]

Re: How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

Originally posted by aneeshm
As a vegetarian, I consider meat eating to be abhorrent, for both religious as well as secular reasons.

The religious reason is that there is tremendous violence inherent in the way that food is obtained. Such violence is not good for the perpetrator.

The secular reason is that killing animals and eating them is, frankly, disgusting. Another secular reason is that eating meat kills the seeds of great compassion.


How do you, as a meat eater (if, that is, you are a meat eater), justify the violence inherent in your food, and inherent in the act of obtaining it? Violence of that nature is, after all, negative, no matter which way you slice it.

Some would argue that eating a carrot is full of violence and kills the seeds (ha ha get it) of great compassion.

What would you respond to those?

Why draw the line at animal vs plants?
What about fungus?
Amoebas?
Nematodes?
Which of those is it ok to eat and why?

[Harovan]

Weren't Muslims (oh, and as it appears Jews too) those who prefer to slaughter their animals by letting them slowly bleed to death? I remember that because there was a discussion here not long ago. Killing animals this way is forbidden by German laws (although it's not a strongly enforced law), and those people were screaming bloody racism because of this.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom

The Stinking Rose in San Francisco, where their garlic is flavoured with food.

And very tasty it is too.

We've been there, it was pretty good. I dont recall what POTM ate (she was 3 at the time)

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


If you click on the link, you will find some very interesting discussions of quranic and other quotes wrt compassion towards animals, appropriate limits on meat eating, etc that are quite applicable to non-vegetarians.

I've read the Qu'ran.

I knew a Muslim vegetarian at university.

But thank you for placing the link in your post.


Pigs/swine were indeed allowed to roam woods (as wild boars do today, still) so they could eat roots, acorns, fallen nuts et cetera.

I'm not too sure what they'd be eating on grasslands... they aren't ruminants.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Weren't Muslims (oh, and as it appears Jews too) those who prefer to slaughter their animals by letting them slowly bleed to death? I remember that because there was a discussion here not long ago. Killing animals this way is forbidden by German laws (although it's not a strongly enforced law), and those people were screaming bloody racism because of this.

No, its just the opposite, they have to be killed with a single blow. Which in part, in origin, was to avoid cruelty. However today this means no preliminary stunning, which creates problems since modern slaughterhouse methods typically put cows through some very scary and unpleasant situations prior to slaughter that it would (arguably) be more humane to have them stunned for. Temple Grandin (sp?) who IS autistic, has designed some humane slaughtering systems that are compatible with kosher slaughter, but unfortunately at this time not all kosher slaughtering houses have adopted them, AFAIK.

[Pekka]

meat is good when consumed in moderation, just like everything else.

Maybe we should ask Africa how they would feel about eating meat. Or about eating. I eat everything, out of respect for the food that I have in front of me. Many people on this planet are not so privilidged to eat.

And about animals, well, since when did we have a problem of having too few animals, where we extract this food? That's right, there's not too few of them. They live because we eat them, period. If we didn't eat them.. do you think you can see them running in the wild? No. They'd die out of the history books for good. They should be thankful we eat them so they can have a short life, and we should be thankful to be able to eat them because food is the component of life and lots of people starve to death.