How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

Animals eat other animals too and nobody is asking whether it's just or not. Humans are animals too, and omnivores by nature, which means they nourish on both vegetables and meat. And that's exactly what I'm doing.

Animals rape females too, and nobody is asking whether it's just or not. Humans are animals too, and rapists by nature, which means they both have consensual sex as well as rape females. And that's exactly what I'm doing.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Their argument is that we don't deserve those rights, because we don't respect it WRT lower lifeforms, so they are not obligated to respect it WRT us (because we are, from their POV, a lower lifeform).

So why don't some Hindus eat garlic or onions ?

Because they respect higher life forms ?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Their argument is that we don't deserve those rights, because we don't respect it WRT lower lifeforms, so they are not obligated to respect it WRT us (because we are, from their POV, a lower lifeform).

Sentient was an important word in that sentence, aneeshm, but even so I do believe I addressed the possibility of the aliens not accepting our argument. We'd have to fight.

-Arrian

[Wycoff]

Re: How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

Originally posted by aneeshm
The religious reason is that there is tremendous violence inherent in the way that food is obtained. Such violence is not good for the perpetrator.

Why not?

The secular reason is that killing animals and eating them is, frankly, disgusting.

Maybe it is to you, but it isn't to me. Some people find the thought of eating mushrooms to be disgusting. Is that a reason for all people not to eat mushrooms?

Another secular reason is that eating meat kills the seeds of great compassion.

How so? What does "great compassion" even mean, and what is the difference between that a plain "compassion?"

How do you, as a meat eater (if, that is, you are a meat eater), justify the violence inherent in your food, and inherent in the act of obtaining it?

There's no need to justify it, really. We're at the top of the food chain. We got to where we are today in part because we are omnivorous and because the evolution of our brain was partially spurred by the consumption of animal proteins. Human rights are abstract concepts based upon cognition and self awareness. Those principles have no application to animals, especially to the species that we have chosen to use as livestock.

Violence of that nature is, after all, negative, no matter which way you slice it.

How so? How much worse is it than all of the animal life that is destroyed harvesting vegatables?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by aneeshm


As a vegetarian, I'm not that picky - I'll eat at the same table where meat is served. But I won't eat any myself.

let me give an example of what I meant. POTM has a good friend who is a vegetarian. The friends mom is not happy about this, and tends not to make special foods for here, leaving her to eat side dishes, etc. The friend went to a Passover Seder at the home of another friend (to which POTM went, but we didnt) the main course was lamb. The friends mom was insistent that the friend eat the lamb, as a good guest (not sure what she actually ate)

We had this friend over to our house for POTMs birthday, and another vegetarian as well (a girl of Indian background, as it happens) While the main course we served was chicken, we made sure to have alternative main courses for the vegetarians available, as well as sides, and were verbally supportive of the young womens choices.

Thats the difference I was referring to.

[Dinner]

The sad part is aneeshm is trying to come up with stupid space alien fantasies to justify his religion.

[Arrian]

There's no need to justify it, really. We're at the top of the food chain. We got to where we are today in part because we are omnivorous and because the evolution of our brain was partially spurred by the consumption of animal proteins. Human rights are abstract concepts based upon cognition and self awareness. Those principles have no application to animals, especially to the species that we have chosen to use as livestock.

Again, the lion doesn't justify his consumption of gazelle. I'm not going to justify my consumption of cow.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The sad part is aneeshm is trying to come up with stupid space alien fantasies to justify his religion. In all three monotheistic religions god created plants and animals for humans to use and exploit. I say eat them.

at least some rabbis consider that vegetarianism is the highest form of kashrut, and that meat eating is a compromise with human nature.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The sad part is aneeshm is trying to come up with stupid space alien fantasies to justify his religion.

Isn't that basically what Hinduism is anyway

[Harovan]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I think the idea is that humans are beyond animals in our ability to reason ethically. Its got less to do with justice, and more to do with what we as humans aspire to being.

I don't mind if you have ethicality for lunch as long as you don't mind that I have a steak. If need be, you may call me Untermensch for it, I don't give a damn.

[Asher]

at least some rabbis consider that vegetarianism is the highest form of kashrut, and that meat eating is a compromise with human nature.

They're crazy, as are most people who devote their lives to fantasy.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian




Again, the lion doesn't justify his consumption of gazelle. I'm not going to justify my consumption of cow.

-Arrian

The lion doesnt attempt to justify his behavior relative to other lions either. When we become ethical beings, we set ourselves apart with a different way of making decisions.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I have resolved not to eat the meat of dear, buffalo, goat.

But goat is awesome. So much better than lamb.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


I don't mind if you have ethicality for lunch as long as you don't mind that I have a steak. If need be, you may call me Untermensch for it, I don't give a damn.

I dont mind what you do. Indeed, I still eat steaks myself. But I AM going to critique the silly arguments being made against Aneeshm here.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Their argument is that we don't deserve those rights, because we don't respect it WRT lower lifeforms, so they are not obligated to respect it WRT us (because we are, from their POV, a lower lifeform).

Your argument is faulty. It assumes that the importance is in relative intelligence rather than absolute intelligence.