Who makes foreign policy in the USA?

[Ned]

"WASHINGTON (AP) - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, deflecting White House criticism of her trip to Syria, said Friday she thinks the mission helped President Bush because it showed the United States is unified against terrorism despite being divided over the Iraq war.
Pelosi, D-Calif., met with Syrian President Bashar Assad in Damascus earlier this week, against the president's wishes.

"Our message was President Bush's message," Pelosi said in a phone interview with The Associated Press from Portugal, where she stopped briefly en route back to the United States.

"The funny thing is, I think we may have even had a more powerful impact with our message because of the attention that was called to our trip," the California Democrat said. "It became clear to President Assad that even though we have our differences in the United States, there is no division between the president and the Congress and the Democrats on the message we wanted him to receive."

Bush earlier in the week assailed Pelosi for making the trip to Damascus, saying it sent mixed messages to the Syrian government, which his administration considers to be a state supporter of terrorism. "

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OB9KC80&show_article=1

Perhaps this requires a different thread, but how does our pulling out of Iraq help the WOT? One of the central "lessons learned" in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 is that al Qa'ida was able to set up bases in civil war-torn Afghanistan because we abandoned that country to civil war after we had supported the various rebel factions against the Russians.

Do the Dems think anything fundamentally different will happen this time in the case of Iraq? And if they do, what is the basis of their thinking?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Given the state of our relations and influence on Syrian policy, and the immense amount of untapped military power we wield, there was nothing to damage.

America wasn't the only one affected by Pelosi's visit. She handed Assad a propaganda victory vis-a-vis the Israelis by bungling the message she was supposed to deliver, which gave Assad a chance to trumpet his desire for immediate peace talks while at the same time forcing Olmert to come out and say that he really doesn't support peace talks until Syria cleans up its act.

Not really.

She make herself look like a fool.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

America wasn't the only one affected by Pelosi's visit. She handed Assad a propaganda victory vis-a-vis the Israelis by bungling the message she was supposed to deliver, which gave Assad a chance to trumpet his desire for immediate peace talks while at the same time forcing Olmert to come out and say that he really doesn't support peace talks until Syria cleans up its act.

A propaganda victory with who? The Arabs and so-called non-aligned third world asswipes who've supported the Arab line wrt Israel for decades?
Both parties have had the same basic line for years.

Tell me how many nations or people who have supported Israel's position have suddenly decided Baby Assad is now the great peacemaker, and it's only the evil baby-eating Zionists who stand in the way?

[Drake Tungsten]

You don't know much about Europe, do you? We don't like Assad because he's trying to move in on our territory (Lebanon), but the rest of Europe doesn't have much reason to not prefer him over the Israelis...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat



A propaganda victory with who? The Arabs and so-called non-aligned third world asswipes who've supported the Arab line wrt Israel for decades?
Both parties have had the same basic line for years.

Tell me how many nations or people who have supported Israel's position have suddenly decided Baby Assad is now the great peacemaker, and it's only the evil baby-eating Zionists who stand in the way?

Fence sitters in the US and Europe? You think there arent any fence sitters on this issue? Some of them of limited analytic ability?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
Perhaps this requires a different thread, but how does our pulling out of Iraq help the WOT? One of the central "lessons learned" in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 is that al Qa'ida was able to set up bases in civil war-torn Afghanistan because we abandoned that country to civil war after we had supported the various rebel factions against the Russians.

Do the Dems think anything fundamentally different will happen this time in the case of Iraq? And if they do, what is the basis of their thinking?

Your wish has been granted: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=164672

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
You don't know much about Europe, do you? We don't like Assad because he's trying to move in on our territory (Lebanon), but the rest of Europe doesn't have much reason to not prefer him over the Israelis...

And the "rest of Europe" has been happy to condemn Israel in the UN general assembly and to trade with whatever Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian *******s they wish, so long as convenient to their perceived national interests.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Fence sitters in the US and Europe? You think there arent any fence sitters on this issue? Some of them of limited analytic ability?

I think there are quite a few "don't cares" but not many at this point (hint: Israel-Palestinian-Arab pissing matches have been around for a looooong time in the western press), who are looking to hop off the fence onto one side or another.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ned
Not just me, but most republicans think this.

Haven't you been listening to talk radio recently?

I try not to. They tend not live in reality.

[Drake Tungsten]

And the "rest of Europe" has been happy to condemn Israel in the UN general assembly and to trade with whatever Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian *******s they wish, so long as convenient to their perceived national interests.

The assassination of Hariri had turned world opinion against Syria. As such, Assad is looking for any public relations help that he can get and your House Speaker was kind enough to give him some...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

And the "rest of Europe" has been happy to condemn Israel in the UN general assembly and to trade with whatever Syrian, Iraqi or Iranian *******s they wish, so long as convenient to their perceived national interests.

The assassination of Hariri had turned world opinion against Syria. As such, Assad is looking for any public relations help that he can get and your House Speaker was kind enough to give him some...

Yeah but youve got to respect how MTG takes an assertion and uses it support a position that seems so contradictory in style, emotion and attitude.

The euros are a bunch of Antisemitic and AntiAmerican asswipes, ergo Nancy Pelosi making nicey nice with Assad does no real harm, unlike what the rightists say. And he makes the logical connection strong enough that to reassert that Pelosi is wrong, you have to deny that the Euros are 100% asswipes. Which isnt hard for me, but is for the more rigid rightists.

I aspire to such logical leaps myself, and only occasionally pull them off.

[Victor Galis]

I think she did a lot of good presenting to Middle Eastern Muslims a view of an America that isn't out to get them.

[Drake Tungsten]

Some Lebanese don't seem very pleased with Pelosi's efforts, either...

We can thank the US speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, for having informed Syrian President Bashar Assad, from Beirut, that "the road to solving Lebanon's problems passes through Damascus." Now, of course, all we need to do is remind Pelosi that the spirit and letter of successive United Nations Security Council resolutions, as well as Saudi and Egyptian efforts in recent weeks, have been destined to ensure precisely the opposite: that Syria end its meddling in Lebanese affairs.

Pelosi embarked on a fool's errand to Damascus this week, and among the issues she said she would raise with Assad - when she wasn't on the Lady Hester Stanhope tour in the capital of imprisoned dissidents Aref Dalila, Michel Kilo, and Anwar Bunni - is "the role of Syria in supporting Hamas and Hizbullah." What the speaker doesn't seem to have realized is that if Syria is made an obligatory passage in American efforts to address the Lebanese crisis, then Hizbullah will only gain. Once Assad is re-anointed gatekeeper in Lebanon, he will have no incentive to concede anything, least of all to dilettantes like Pelosi, on an organization that would be Syria's enforcer in Beirut if it could re-impose its hegemony over its smaller neighbor.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=5&article_id=81211

[Ned]

From Pelosi to Rosie to the Chair of the Foreign Relations committee who knew not the difference between Sunni and Shia, we are receiving repeated demonstrations of the superior skill, knowledge and intelligence from those who called Bush stupid and incompetent and not fit to govern.

[Berzerker]

You should add that Bush has so wimped out as a president that no one cares what his opinion is anymore --

It aint wimpiness turning people off, its the deceit