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  • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


    How do you define "conduct a foreign policy?"

    Pelosi can pretty much go anywhere and talk to whoever she wants. If that results in things happening that are useful, then it's really semantic as to whether she's conducting foreign policy or not.
    "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi may well have committed a felony in traveling to Damascus this week, against the wishes of the president, to communicate on foreign-policy issues with Syrian President Bashar Assad. The administration isn't going to want to touch this political hot potato, nor should it become a partisan issue. Maybe special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, whose aggressive prosecution of Lewis Libby establishes his independence from White House influence, should be called back.

    The Logan Act makes it a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to three years for any American, "without authority of the United States," to communicate with a foreign government in an effort to influence that government's behavior on any "disputes or controversies with the United States." Some background on this statute helps to understand why Ms. Pelosi may be in serious trouble.

    President John Adams requested the statute after a Pennsylvania pacifist named George Logan traveled to France in 1798 to assure the French government that the American people favored peace in the undeclared "Quasi War" being fought on the high seas between the two countries. In proposing the law, Rep. Roger Griswold of Connecticut explained that the object was, as recorded in the Annals of Congress, "to punish a crime which goes to the destruction of the executive power of the government. He meant that description of crime which arises from an interference of individual citizens in the negotiations of our executive with foreign governments."

    The debate on this bill ran nearly 150 pages in the Annals. On Jan. 16, 1799, Rep. Isaac Parker of Massachusetts explained, "the people of the United States have given to the executive department the power to negotiate with foreign governments, and to carry on all foreign relations, and that it is therefore an usurpation of that power for an individual to undertake to correspond with any foreign power on any dispute between the two governments, or for any state government, or any other department of the general government, to do it."

    Griswold and Parker were Federalists who believed in strong executive power. But consider this statement by Albert Gallatin, the future Secretary of the Treasury under President Thomas Jefferson, who was wary of centralized government: "it would be extremely improper for a member of this House to enter into any correspondence with the French Republic . . . As we are not at war with France, an offence of this kind would not be high treason, yet it would be as criminal an act, as if we were at war." Indeed, the offense is greater when the usurpation of the president's constitutional authority is done by a member of the legislature--all the more so by a Speaker of the House--because it violates not just statutory law but constitutes a usurpation of the powers of a separate branch and a breach of the oath of office Ms. Pelosi took to support the Constitution.





    The Supreme Court has spoken clearly on this aspect of the separation of powers. In Marbury v. Madison, Chief Justice John Marshall used the president's authority over the Department of State as an illustration of those "important political powers" that, "being entrusted to the executive, the decision of the executive is conclusive." And in the landmark 1936 Curtiss-Wright case, the Supreme Court reaffirmed: "Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it."

    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

    Comment


    • Logan did not pretend to represent the state department nor does the act say anything about pretending to represent te state department.
      Yes, and Logan wasn't prosecuted. What's your point? The WSJ's and your argument for Constitutionality was dependent on the court case you cited. It clearly doesn't apply.
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

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      • What did Pelosi's visit have to do with the "pursuance of her legislative duties under the Constitution"?

        Anyway, who cares whether Pelosi should have gone to Syria or not? That ship has already sailed. Now we should be discussing how much damage she did...
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        • Ramo, I think your real point is that Bush doesn't have the balls to do anything about Ambassador-Speaker Pelosi so whether she violated the act or not is never going to be questioned by the government. Therefor, this is field day for pundits of all stripes whose points will never be tested in court. Everyone can say they are right and never be proved wrong.
          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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          • I was amazed to watch Democrat apologists on several talk show programs defending Pelosi by saying she was just implementing the recommendations of Baker-Hamilton to negotiate with Syria.

            That is what she said she was doing and going to do before she left town.
            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
              What did Pelosi's visit have to do with the "pursuance of her legislative duties under the Constitution"?

              Anyway, who cares whether Pelosi should have gone to Syria or not? That ship has already sailed. Now we should be discussing how much damage she did...
              Given the state of our relations and influence on Syrian policy, and the immense amount of untapped military power we wield, there was nothing to damage.
              When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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              • That being said, the real wonder is the incredible shrinking man we have as president. He is so fatuous and contemptous that Pelosi never even tried to hide that she was negotiating on behalf of the United States almost as if the president was a non entity.

                Which, of course, he is.

                This is what he gets for years of appeasement of Democrats.
                http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ned
                  I was amazed to watch Democrat apologists on several talk show programs defending Pelosi by saying she was just implementing the recommendations of Baker-Hamilton to negotiate with Syria.

                  That is what she said she was doing and going to do before she left town.
                  Meet with != negotiate with
                  When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                  Comment




                  • Only Ned can think that Bush has "appeased" the Democrats!
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ned

                      This is what he gets for years of appeasement of Democrats.


                      Are you on your meds again, or off?
                      When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                      • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


                        Given the state of our relations and influence on Syrian policy, and the immense amount of untapped military power we wield, there was nothing to damage.
                        So true.

                        You should add that Bush has so wimped out as a president that no one cares what his opinion is anymore -- so much so that the speaker of the house can openly act as president without anyone but a few die-hard republicans caring.
                        http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


                          Only Ned can think that Bush has "appeased" the Democrats!
                          Not just me, but most republicans think this.

                          Haven't you been listening to talk radio recently?
                          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat




                            Are you on your meds again, or off?
                            You clearly do not understand republican's views of the incredible shrinking president.
                            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


                              Meet with != negotiate with
                              I may have been mislead by all the democrat spokes-people saying that she WAS negotiating.
                              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                              Comment


                              • Given the state of our relations and influence on Syrian policy, and the immense amount of untapped military power we wield, there was nothing to damage.


                                America wasn't the only one affected by Pelosi's visit. She handed Assad a propaganda victory vis-a-vis the Israelis by bungling the message she was supposed to deliver, which gave Assad a chance to trumpet his desire for immediate peace talks while at the same time forcing Olmert to come out and say that he really doesn't support peace talks until Syria cleans up its act.
                                KH FOR OWNER!
                                ASHER FOR CEO!!
                                GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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