Why has CivFanatics overtaken Apolyton in members?

[Ming]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Well, it's not as if there are that many (active) mods in the civ4 community. Right now just Solver and me.
If you add 1 or 2 that's not as if there's an overdose on mods.

You seem to be forgetting about Rah and me. While both of us are indeed active, we have also used our mod powers in those forums on multiple occasions when needed. We have MORE THAN ENOUGH people watching over them for the number of posts. It is almost overkill.

[Robert]

Now, let's see if your mod status suddenly prompts you to create a huge modpack .

I can steal one from CFC
And regarding Locotus and Gramphos, it's nice that you guys backup each other (and I do backup L as well since he's dutch! ) but I feel that the (famous) people here on poly are more important then the site itself.
There's no need to defend people, we should just do what's best.

And indeed, you can handle the problems yourself pretty well on the civ4 forums.
But moderating is more then just handling problems.
I mean, why are there 10+ threads topped in the civ4 forum where half of them is outdated? That kinda stuff doesn't invite people to participate.

I didn't dare to remove all those topped threads so far since I'm new in the team. (I do have some manners ) but honestly, why does a screenshot thread have to be topped? Or a patch 1.08 bug thread, so long after the release. Not that reporting bugs isn't a good thing, it's a great thing, but does there have to be a topped thread for everything that's important.

Well, apolyton does a MUCH better thing on topped threads though! CFC is a disaster on that level! I have to scroll myself a disabled thumb to get to the threads that really matter

[Robert]

Originally posted by Ming


You seem to be forgetting about Rah and me. While both of us are indeed active, we have also used our mod powers in those forums on multiple occasions when needed. We have MORE THAN ENOUGH people watching over them for the number of posts. It is almost overkill.

Mods as people who participate.
Not babysitters.

[Robert]

Listen guys, you do really do a great job defending stuff how it goes right now on Apolyton for that!
Really, the arguments you guys post are truely fantastic!

But will all those beautifull arguments, reasons, defendings, etc. etc. Apolyton civ4 still lies like a bare wasted field.
My question is not: please explain how you guys do the perfect job right now, and I'm willing to accept that it's perfect! After all you're almost divine (notice the )

My question is: what are you going to do about it?
My suggestions are clearly inferior, well, I'm only a stupid programmer who believes in creation, it's obvious that not a single wise word can come from my mouth, but help me, what needs to be done?

All tongue in cheek, of course
(not the part that I'm dumb, that's real!)

[Solver]

CS, I've reviewed the Civ4 forum topped threads last week, in fact. I think that everyone one of them should remain, with the exception of screenshot thread, yeah, that one should be unstuck. Now I notice the 2.08 hotseat fix thread is unstuck, did you do that? If so, bad - it's a problem, the fix is there, so it has to be visible.

I think that patch threads should remain stuck until there's a next patch - or until a couple of months after an announcement that there will be no more patches. But seriously, for every thread that is topped there, there's a reason. If anything, I don't think I'll be able to overlook those too often, I see them a dozen times a day.

[LordShiva]

I think there'll be more activity if we're all given access to the Staff Forum

Or, just give me access

[Solver]

My question is: what are you going to do about it?
My suggestions are clearly inferior, well, I'm only a stupid programmer who believes in creation, it's obvious that not a single wise word can come from my mouth, but help me, what needs to be done?

A few dozen posts ago in this thread, Dan said that there is motion behind the scenes. And let me assure you, there is. While I'm not at liberty to discuss the plans and the motion, don't make the mistake of assuming all this complaining and criticism (constructive criticism, really) is falling on deaf ears.

So, while I can't say WHAT we are going to do, I can say that we are doing something. And, as I just mentioned, anyone with good technical skills is welcome to apply at any time.

[Robert]

Now I notice the 2.08 hotseat fix thread is unstuck, did you do that? If so, bad - it's a problem, the fix is there, so it has to be visible.

k, I'll re-stick it.
The patch-threads can be merged.
I'll unstick the screenshot thread.

But: there are more forums with sticked threads!

So, while I can't say WHAT we are going to do, I can say that we are doing something.

Great to hear!
Good luck!
Don't be too conservative!
No, don't be conservative at all! Dare to shake things up!

[Robert]

"The newbie (but not only so) Guide to Civ4" and "Glossary of Terms" and "Reference-list for (undocumented) interface features" can be merged into one huge "Civ4 info on terms, undocumented features etc." thead.

"Warlords V2.08 bug thread" and "Warlords Patch 2.08 Released!" can be merged

Well, that's it. The HOF thread will be gone soon anyway. That'll clean stuff really up and keep all info reachable!

If you still have a link to the hot-seat fix.... I lost it and can't find it

[Robert]

Take this (topped) thread in the creation forum: "Introducing: CIV4 MODIFICATION WIKI"
The first post contained 2 links to the wiki's.
Both links were invalid for months, if not almost a year.
The last post in the thread was someone who said that the URL was wrong, and what the right URL should be.

Nobody fixed it for months. I fixed it yesterday.
Why was that thread topped for so long while the info was so plainly wrong? Did nobody evaluate the topped threads?

Really, this is not a complain to you solver, because I know that you do GREAT stuff for our community! (I didn't vote for you for the HOF for nothing)
It's just that it shows that moderators are more then babysitters! They must organise the info, gather info, show info, etc. etc.

[Solver]

Okay, good points there CS. And thanks for the re-sticks. Allowing the Modiki thread to remain stickied is certainly an oversight of mine, I knew very well that it hasn't worked for almost a year...

[DanQ]

Originally posted by notyoueither
When it came time to have Civ4 forums, who were the moderators? Rah and Solver? No knock on these guys, but where was the fresh blood, new ideas, and energy in positions that are seen to count (both by the person in the position, and in the community as well)?

The most efficient way for individuals who were/are interested in assisting in the operation of Apolyton to contact the administration directly via PM or email (support@apolyton.net). As Solver has already alluded to, we welcome these offers of assistance ... and need them!

Thunderfall actively recruits new people as mods and gives them a real sense of ownership at that other site.

Something I think Thunderfall has done very well is recruit, and not wait for them to ask, as well as give people recruited a sense of ownership that motivates them. They in turn motivate others and help create more activity.

We used to actively recruit (i.e. "position openings"), but little to no responses were received -- and of those few received at times, and accepted (which was most), these individuals often bowed out quickly. This almost always occurred with very just reasons, but due to this continued pattern this approach became frustrating and has been almost entirely discarded.

I acknowledge that we could and can do a better job of approaching people directly: we have always done this in measures, but not on as large a scale as we could it seems.

I'm not sure what you mean by "real sense of ownership" that, if I am interpreting correctly, you believe staff members here do not have.

[Adrian Hon]

Here's a brief perspective from a semi-lurker who's been registered for over five years, and lurking for longer. I think I originally came across Poly while playing Civ2 and looking for clues. I remember spending hours just browsing through the strategy forums for tips - it was a great time.

(I was also fairly involved with some SMAC forums, wherever they were - writing a lot of fanfic under the name of Elemental. Later, I wrote a long story about a Civ3 game I played but never posted it on Poly - I forget why)

Fast forward to 2001, when I finally registered. I'm pretty sure it was for a demogame, which absolutely fascinated me - I love the idea of demogames and collective intelligences, and I had to be involved somehow. For some reason though, the other forums didn't really interest me - probably because I didn't find Civ3 that interesting.

Civ4 really drew me back in though, and I found Poly's coverage to be perfectly fine. Sometimes CFC would beat Poly to a story, but typically you could get everything you needed from Poly. Now, however, I find the news on Poly to be either of little interest ('Civ3 is rated 88% by West Bohemia Express!') or completely out-of-date. I appreciate that it can take time to upload or transcribe interviews with Soren or Firaxis, but it really shouldn't be spread out over months; by then, any interesting info will have come out elsewhere, and anyone following may have gone. Having said that, much of CFC's news is dull to me - I'm not that in to mods or GOTM (although I do notice they have coverage of Soren's talk at GDC where Poly does not).

I've recently started playing Civ4 again and so have been looking in the Strategy forum for tips. Without a doubt, the posters and information there is excellent and when I posted a thread with a question, I had some great responses with minutes. But the forum is dead - with only a few threads posted every day, there's no point going back and checking. I haven't yet looked at CFC's strat pages but I imagine they're much busier.

I spend more time in Other Games (very interesting to see Civers' take on other games), and the vast majority of my time in Off Topic. Other people have said it, but Off Topic is really the heart of Poly to me. I don't think I've seen a community like it on the web anywhere, and I've seen quite a few - many people here are generally very smart, very good at arguing and genuinely funny. Plus they like Civ. With all such communities, there's a danger of becoming too insular, which I think is inevitable, but in my experience of setting up forums (three so far), the Off Topic section is always the busiest or second busiest subform - and so it should be.

So, what to do? I think the news page really needs to be spruced up; it looks and behaves like it's from ten years ago. Tags, permalinks, timely news, it'd all help.

Personally speaking, I think demogames should be pushed to the fore again - they are absolutely fascinating and entertaining for outsiders. If someone figured out a way of making them a good spectator sport, I would even be willing to donate some sort of monetary prize for a tournament to get them going just because they're so fun.

Finally, liven up the Strategy forum! Start up some collective project. People used to talk about Apolyton University all the time - it was cited in papers. Now what's happened? I have no idea.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by DanQ

The most efficient way for individuals who were/are interested in assisting in the operation of Apolyton to contact the administration directly via PM or email (support@apolyton.net). As Solver has already alluded to, we welcome these offers of assistance ... and need them!

Is this true though? I remember when Ming was technically moderator of Civ3 forums but had no interest in the game. There was a long period of effectively no moderation, with stickies on old patches that were 6 months out of date or more, and a forum structure that was outdated given the expansion.

I wrote a long PM to you, MarkG and Ming about what I thought needed to be done to reinvigorate the forums and tidy things up, and I offered to help with that.

I never so much as got a thank you for your input, which had taken me some time to put together. Naturally this was the last time I put any thought into such matters.

[Dis]

I really would like to help with the site, but I lack web programming skills, and do not have an artistic ability to design websites.

someone mentioned recruiting. I think the owners/operators should recruit. I had no idea we were in such need of staff. Word is not getting out.

Seriously, if there is anything I can do to help out with the site, I will. I'm here for the long haul. Though I admit my hours vary. But lately I've had more time to post here.

In some cases, if people teach me how to do things, I could help out. But at present time, I don't have the knowledge.