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2nd condemned Texas inmate in as many days executed
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
If you're going o use the death penalty the ****ing use it. You need to be killing an order of magnitude more people, and you need to do it in a reasonable timeframe.
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Then (assuming you support it) why do you support it?
I don't think certain people have rights, once they've done certain things. I think it's important for society to state that some things are worse than others, and some things are so bad that we must respond with execution. I think the finality of execution is an important part of that statement. I think it's no evil to execute certain criminals and some good, so we should do it, with appropriate safeguards in place.
If the death penalty deters murder, wouldn't it deter other crimes even better? I mean, I can imagine someone being so consumed with rage that even the death penaly wouldn't stop him from killing, but surely it would keep him from, say, speeding, or under-reporting his income, or undertaking construction on his proprety without the proper permits. Why not the death penalty for everything?
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
If the death penalty deters murder, wouldn't it deter other crimes even better? I mean, I can imagine someone being so consumed with rage that even the death penaly wouldn't stop him from killing, but surely it would keep him from, say, speeding, or under-reporting his income, or undertaking construction on his proprety without the proper permits. Why not the death penalty for everything?
Even assuming we had people arguing for deterrent here, that argument is stupid. You're usually better than this...
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I think it's important for society to state that some things are worse than others, and some things are so bad that we must respond with execution.
There are those who are capable of committing the "worst of th worst" murders, and there are those who are incapable of it. If you're only reaching the ones who wouldn't do it anyway then your message is worthless.
The statement isn't important for its deterrent effect. The statement is important in itself. It's a positive declaration of fundamental common values.
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The statement isn't important for its deterrent effect. The statement is important in itself. It's a positive declaration of fundamental common values.
A declaration has no value in itself. Only its effects have value. What are these effects, according to you?
It reinforces those common values - not in those people sufficiantly deviant to violate them, but in the general population. A statement of principles has, I suppose, a unifying effect. (That's not well worded, but I'm not entirely sure how to describe it.) And, of course, one of those common values is that these people do not have rights, they've forfeited them, and that this deserves punishment by death.
Maybe this will clarify: murder isn't the best case for DP. Treason is. Someone who betrays us in a way that costs the lives of American soldiers ought to be executed. We are saying, "many things are bad, but this crime is beyond all of them in its severity. This is one of the common principles that unite us."
As I said before, according to my values at least there's no evil in killing them and some good.
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The statement isn't important for its deterrent effect. The statement is important in itself. It's a positive declaration of fundamental common values.
And the State couldn't declare its opposotion to murder without the dp?
Does that mean that all those states without the dp condone murder? What about all those European countries?
And if they all condone murder (or don't oppose it vigorously enough), why do they all have lower murder rates than Texas?
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
And the State couldn't declare its opposotion to murder without the dp?
If you say murder is the greatest crime, and then punish it no worse than lesser crimes, you haven't really placed it any lower on the hierarchy. So no.
Does that mean that all those states without the dp condone murder? What about all those European countries?
To a degree, yes, I think they do. At least, they don't really find it any worse than other crimes that give life sentences (if that! We hear enough stories about people getting out after a few years...)
And if they all condone murder (or don't oppose it vigorously enough), why do they all have lower murder rates than Texas?
Because the DP has little or no deterrent effect and I never said it does and I never said that deterrence was the reason we ought to have it.
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