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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
No, I view the lack of addressing the current situation from a rational stand-point zealot.
I call the refusal to meet with duely elected leaders simply because you know they won't roll over and play dead, zealot.
I call the support of carpet bombings and extensive military action, actions that have been frowned upon by most world leaders including the US, in response to the kidnapping of 6 soldiers, zealot.
You call it "industrious". Hey, tomato - tomahto.
Tom P.
I thought you were discussing the original claim, and the origin of Zionism.
If you wish to change the subject and discuss why Israel refuses to meet with Hamas unless and until Hamas recongnizes the Oslo principles, until it goes as far as the PLO did in 1992, we can discuss that.
If you want to discuss the war in lebanon we can discuss that (though we've been over that many times)
I suggest that changing the topics in threads leads to confusion, and since the thread title remains the same, often means the most knowledegable people dont show up.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Hmmm, the north of England is depopulating and needs some regeneration.
My great grandfather LEFT the North of England before 1900. Been there, done that.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
I thought you were discussing the original claim, and the origin of Zionism.
If you wish to change the subject and discuss why Israel refuses to meet with Hamas unless and until Hamas recongnizes the Oslo principles, until it goes as far as the PLO did in 1992, we can discuss that.
If you want to discuss the war in lebanon we can discuss that (though we've been over that many times)
I suggest that changing the topics in threads leads to confusion, and since the thread title remains the same, often means the most knowledegable people dont show up.
This one I have to give you... on re-reading it I have no real idea what I was responding to.
The post I quoted had little if anything to do with the rant I posted.
The US had no particular motivation to offer US territory. BTW, since when did Alberta belong to the US?
And why was this a British problem? Why not a tract of land in New Mexico. There are plenty of areas the size of Isreal in the US with hardly anyone living there even today. Alaska? Alberta?
It is not, but more importantly it is not a part of Britain But yes, that was a bit concusing the way I said it.
The US had no particular motivation to offer US territory
After WWII, why would the British? If anything it was the continental powers that had the greatest motivation to find a home for displaced Jews. France offer anything? Former Italian colonies? Sure the populations would have been just as hostile to displacement but these were on the perephery of the muslim world at least, not smack dab in the middle.
And I understand there was a level of infrustructure in Palistine already, but long term thinking here. So what? Just becasue Isreal was the Jewish pipe dream doesn't change anything about its viability, and dispite your insistance to the contrary I find it hard to believe people could not see the problems inherent in settling millions of people where millions of people already are.
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
After WWII, why would the British? If anything it was the continental powers that had the greatest motivation to find a home for displaced Jews. France offer anything? Former Italian colonies? Sure the populations would have been just as hostile to displacement but these were on the perephery of the muslim world at least, not smack dab in the middle.
And I understand there was a level of infrustructure in Palistine already, but long term thinking here. So what? Just becasue Isreal was the Jewish pipe dream doesn't change anything about its viability, and dispite your insistance to the contrary I find it hard to believe people could not see the problems inherent in settling millions of people where millions of people already are.
1. After WW Two it was a british problem because Britain only held Palestine due to the League Mandate, and the mandate specified the creation of a Jewish national home in Palestine. France and Italy, in 1946, expected the problem to be solved IN Palestine because that was what the League had agreed on way back in 1919. There would have been no reason to suggest a French or Italian colony. France could well have responded that if UK had no interest in fulfilling the mandate then UK should have let France have the mandate in 1919.
2. Your use of the word pipe dream prejudges the question. In fact Israel has proven to be quite viable. Its one of the more successful states in the world today. If ISrael today is "not viable" then neither are about 3/4 of the members of the UN.
3. in 1946 most Zionists were amenable to a partition, which would have meant the Palestinians would have had their own state for their millions, and the Jews their state for their millions.
4. I rather suspect that in 1946, after a war that took tens of millions of lives, and in which 5-6 million Jewish civilians had been murdered, there was perhaps a greater tolerance for "problems".
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by Arrian
If anything, the country that owed a slice of territory was obviously Germany.
-Arrian
except that most of the survivors of eastern Europe didnt even want to remain in Europe, and Germany was about the last place they wanted to go. also there was hardly any settled Jewish population there, and no Jewish infrastructure. It was also a place in miserable economic shape in '45. And of course the half a million Jews already in Palestine didnt want to go to Germany, and the millions of Jews in the muslim world, whos position was deteriorating rapidly, were for the most part not interested in moving to Europe (except for some highly gallicized North African Jews, and they werent interested in going anywhere in Europe that wasnt francophone)
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
I assumed no such thing. If someone is posting wrong or misleading info, I will attempt to correct it. If someone is clearly lacking in info, I will suggest they buy a book. If someone is asking politely and in a positive spirit for info I will try to help them find it.
...Im tired of teaching modern Jewish history 101.
This assumes that you are trying to educate me (and are now tired of it).
In any case I was not trying to troll or upset the state. I was asking an honest question that has honest and sincere ramifications (some of which are currently being discussed). A response along the lines of post #115 was all I was looking for.
Originally posted by Patroklos
... and dispite your insistance to the contrary I find it hard to believe people could not see the problems inherent in settling millions of people where millions of people already are.
For some reason this is a valid reason to reject Uganda but it's easily overlooked when dealing with Palestine.
I don't understand that either.
Tom P.
EDIT: CRAP!! I keep getting Madagascar and Uganda mixed up.
...Im tired of teaching modern Jewish history 101.
This assumes that you are trying to educate me (and are now tired of it).
In any case I was not trying to troll or upset the state. I was asking an honest question that has honest and sincere ramifications (some of which are currently being discussed). A response along the lines of post #115 was all I was looking for.
Tom P.
I did not say "teaching YOU modern Jewish history 101"
You seem to be under the impression that youre the first person to either ask a question about Israel, or make an assertion, or make an assertion in the form of a question.
Im tired of teaching modern Jewish history 101 over and over again in thread after thread. In this case, given how little you apparently knew (and know) about the history of the Jews since 1800, which involved not so much a specific fact but an entire misunderstanding of the nature of Jewish identity in most of the world from 1800 on, I really felt that suggesting a good book was far more appropriate than posting anything specific. I still feel that way.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
You guys do realize that Israel already exists, right?
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
For some reason this is a valid reason to reject Madagascar but it's easily overlooked when dealing with Palestine.
I don't understand that either.
Tom P.
Madagascar was never offered by France, the colonial power. It was suggested by Poland, that Madagascar be given by france to Poland, where Polish Jews would then be settled, still under Polish soveriegnty, accomplishing the dual purpose of finding a home for eastern european Jews, and satisfying Polands colonial ambitions. France was never interested in this, nor did anyone else take it seriously. A few Germans tossed the old idea around, but they envisioned something more like a prison camp, and they dropped it fairly quickly.
So again there was never any real "offer" of Madagascar to the Jews. Had France, say offered it in 1938, they would have had to face problems with the locals just as bad as in Palestine, plus no existing Jewish population or infrastructure, plus no historical or emotional connection to the land.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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