Dutchmen!

[Robert]

It's a song about William van Orange, the line that he honoured the spanish king shows that he's not a rebel, he was made a rebel by the spanish who made him defense his 'own people'.
He wanted to serve the spanish, he didn't want to rebel.

I'm actually proud on that. The reason our nation was born was not because we were a bunch of rebels. We do (did) want to honour our 'king', we wanted to obey, but our king didn't want to serve his people.

Good line. Keep it.

And I have no problems with the german blood even if it would really mean 'german'. (remember that Deutschland didn't exist in those days Locotus!!! Deutschland is an invention of the 18th/19th century! Everything 'duits' in those days meant dietch, dutch, deutschland didn't exist and deutschen blut didn't exist either), the fact that William was born in what we call germany now doesn't change that, and is at least not what the writer of the song intended)

But even if it would mean 'german blood', then I wouldn't care. That's just where he came from. And Holland and Germany have a lot in common. We trade a lot, we are very dependant to the German economy. In fact we're pretty good friends with the Germans. They forgot that termporarily in during the 40's, but hey, tha'ts history

[Locutus]

Originally posted by germanos
Bollocks. It wasn't a national anthem untill the 20th century.

Not officially, but officially God Save the Queen isn't the British national anthem either, officially the UK doesn't have a national anthem. But like Wilhelmus, it has been in popular use as such for centuries, in the case of Wilhelmus since the 80 Years War. For a while (1815-1932) Wien Neerlands Bloed coexisted with the Wilhelmus as official anthem for political reasons (basically to appease the Belgians), but Wilhelmus has been in use for much longer than that.

And I don't think the Dutch honoured the Spanish king practicly ever since the song was written

Maybe not the Dutch, but Willem did. The song was already extemely popular during the 80 Years War and has been ever since, so apparently noone's ever really had a problem with it.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Locutus


Not officially

So, does that make it the oldest not official national anthem then?

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
And I have no problems with the german blood even if it would really mean 'german'. (remember that Deutschland didn't exist in those days Locotus!!! Deutschland is an invention of the 18th/19th century! Everything 'duits' in those days meant dietch, dutch, deutschland didn't exist and deutschen blut didn't exist either), the fact that William was born in what we call germany now doesn't change that, and is at least not what the writer of the song intended)

The country of Germany might be a 19th century invention, the German culture has been around for over a millennium (arguably since Roman times, but in the modern sense since the 9th century). The Holy Roman Empire was known as the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" since the 1400s and from around that time there was a clear understanding of the differences between Dutch and German.

[Provost Harrison]

As I have stated on many occasions, I hate God Save The Queen, it is the most drab and awful anthem in existence. There are so many other decent ones we could have chosen...and I think it is time we did! Its only redeeming feature is that it talks of smashing the Scots

[germanos]

I'm so happy we kicked the spanish fundamentalistic butt. King or no king. A shining example to all .

[germanos]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
As I have stated on many occasions, I hate God Save The Queen, it is the most drab and awful anthem in existence. There are so many other decent ones we could have chosen...and I think it is time we did! Its only redeeming feature is that it talks of smashing the Scots

Everytime I hear it, I hear the Sex Pistols

[Locutus]

Originally posted by germanos
So, does that make it the oldest not official national anthem then?

That's a matter of semantics, really (most national anthems weren't made official until the last 100-150 years even though many have a much longer history). But yes, that is definitely true.

[Provost Harrison]

Maybe we should adopt that version

[Robert]

Originally posted by Locutus


The country of Germany might be a 19th century invention, the German culture has been around for over a millennium (arguably since Roman times, but in the modern sense since the 9th century). The Holy Roman Empire was known as the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" since the 1400s and from around that time there was a clear understanding of the differences between Dutch and German.

I mean the word 'deutschland', germany of course dates from much earlier, since the germans refers to the germanic tribes (that lived in Holland as well btw).
But the word 'Deutschland' was unknown when the anthem was written. And Duits or dietsch meant dutch / nederlands in those days.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
As I have stated on many occasions, I hate God Save The Queen, it is the most drab and awful anthem in existence. There are so many other decent ones we could have chosen...and I think it is time we did! Its only redeeming feature is that it talks of smashing the Scots

If it's any consolation, the Wilhelmus is just as bad. I'd love to see it replaced but good luck getting a whole nation to agree on a new one...

[germanos]

Originally posted by CyberShy
And Duits or dietsch meant dutch / nederlands in those days.

You can't be serious.



Anyway, I never sing the bloody anthem, and I never will.

[Provost Harrison]

You should have learned by now that CyberShy can completely talk out of his arse and still be completely serious!

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
But the word 'Deutschland' was unknown when the anthem was written. And Duits or dietsch meant dutch / nederlands in those days.

No, in medieval times Deutch/Duits and Dietsch/Diets were more or less interchangeable terms, they could refer to either German or Dutch, not exclusively one or the other. From around the time the Dutch anthem was written the terms started to solidify. Since Willem was German, Duijtsch (the word used in the original lyrics) refers to German.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
You should have learned by now that CyberShy can completely talk out of his arse and still be completely serious!

QFT