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  • "Victory Is Not an Option"

    Haven't seen this discussed here yet, though it's being much-discussed in Washington and much-reviled in certain quarters. It's an op-ed piece saying that Iraq was a mistake from the get-go, that we should pull out immediately, and that Congress should act if Bush won't. The usual commie-lefty-pinko stuff -- except the author is a general who headed the NSA under Reagan.

    It's worth reading, I think, not for the general point, but for the breadth of the argument and the credibility of the author. This is actually the first compelling case I've seen made for immediate withdrawal, and I must say it has me rethinking my own position. Long, but worthwhile:

    Victory Is Not an Option
    The Mission Can't Be Accomplished -- It's Time for a New Strategy

    By William E. Odom
    Sunday, February 11, 2007; B01

    The new National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq starkly delineates the gulf that separates President Bush's illusions from the realities of the war. Victory, as the president sees it, requires a stable liberal democracy in Iraq that is pro-American. The NIE describes a war that has no chance of producing that result. In this critical respect, the NIE, the consensus judgment of all the U.S. intelligence agencies, is a declaration of defeat.

    Its gloomy implications -- hedged, as intelligence agencies prefer, in rubbery language that cannot soften its impact -- put the intelligence community and the American public on the same page. The public awakened to the reality of failure in Iraq last year and turned the Republicans out of control of Congress to wake it up. But a majority of its members are still asleep, or only half-awake to their new writ to end the war soon.

    Perhaps this is not surprising. Americans do not warm to defeat or failure, and our politicians are famously reluctant to admit their own responsibility for anything resembling those un-American outcomes. So they beat around the bush, wringing hands and debating "nonbinding resolutions" that oppose the president's plan to increase the number of U.S. troops in Iraq.

    For the moment, the collision of the public's clarity of mind, the president's relentless pursuit of defeat and Congress's anxiety has paralyzed us. We may be doomed to two more years of chasing the mirage of democracy in Iraq and possibly widening the war to Iran. But this is not inevitable. A Congress, or a president, prepared to quit the game of "who gets the blame" could begin to alter American strategy in ways that will vastly improve the prospects of a more stable Middle East.

    No task is more important to the well-being of the United States. We face great peril in that troubled region, and improving our prospects will be difficult. First of all, it will require, from Congress at least, public acknowledgment that the president's policy is based on illusions, not realities. There never has been any right way to invade and transform Iraq. Most Americans need no further convincing, but two truths ought to put the matter beyond question:

    First, the assumption that the United States could create a liberal, constitutional democracy in Iraq defies just about everything known by professional students of the topic. Of the more than 40 democracies created since World War II, fewer than 10 can be considered truly "constitutional" -- meaning that their domestic order is protected by a broadly accepted rule of law, and has survived for at least a generation. None is a country with Arabic and Muslim political cultures. None has deep sectarian and ethnic fissures like those in Iraq.

    Strangely, American political scientists whose business it is to know these things have been irresponsibly quiet. In the lead-up to the March 2003 invasion, neoconservative agitators shouted insults at anyone who dared to mention the many findings of academic research on how democracies evolve. They also ignored our own struggles over two centuries to create the democracy Americans enjoy today. Somehow Iraqis are now expected to create a constitutional order in a country with no conditions favoring it.

    This is not to say that Arabs cannot become liberal democrats. When they immigrate to the United States, many do so quickly. But it is to say that Arab countries, as well as a large majority of all countries, find creating a stable constitutional democracy beyond their capacities.

    Second, to expect any Iraqi leader who can hold his country together to be pro-American, or to share American goals, is to abandon common sense. It took the United States more than a century to get over its hostility toward British occupation. (In 1914, a majority of the public favored supporting Germany against Britain.) Every month of the U.S. occupation, polls have recorded Iraqis' rising animosity toward the United States. Even supporters of an American military presence say that it is acceptable temporarily and only to prevent either of the warring sides in Iraq from winning. Today the Iraqi government survives only because its senior members and their families live within the heavily guarded Green Zone, which houses the U.S. Embassy and military command.

    As Congress awakens to these realities -- and a few members have bravely pointed them out -- will it act on them? Not necessarily. Too many lawmakers have fallen for the myths that are invoked to try to sell the president's new war aims. Let us consider the most pernicious of them.

    1) We must continue the war to prevent the terrible aftermath that will occur if our forces are withdrawn soon. Reflect on the double-think of this formulation. We are now fighting to prevent what our invasion made inevitable! Undoubtedly we will leave a mess -- the mess we created, which has become worse each year we have remained. Lawmakers gravely proclaim their opposition to the war, but in the next breath express fear that quitting it will leave a blood bath, a civil war, a terrorist haven, a "failed state," or some other horror. But this "aftermath" is already upon us; a prolonged U.S. occupation cannot prevent what already exists.

    2) We must continue the war to prevent Iran's influence from growing in Iraq. This is another absurd notion. One of the president's initial war aims, the creation of a democracy in Iraq, ensured increased Iranian influence, both in Iraq and the region. Electoral democracy, predictably, would put Shiite groups in power -- groups supported by Iran since Saddam Hussein repressed them in 1991. Why are so many members of Congress swallowing the claim that prolonging the war is now supposed to prevent precisely what starting the war inexorably and predictably caused? Fear that Congress will confront this contradiction helps explain the administration and neocon drumbeat we now hear for expanding the war to Iran.

    Here we see shades of the Nixon-Kissinger strategy in Vietnam: widen the war into Cambodia and Laos. Only this time, the adverse consequences would be far greater. Iran's ability to hurt U.S. forces in Iraq are not trivial. And the anti-American backlash in the region would be larger, and have more lasting consequences.

    3) We must prevent the emergence of a new haven for al-Qaeda in Iraq. But it was the U.S. invasion that opened Iraq's doors to al-Qaeda. The longer U.S. forces have remained there, the stronger al-Qaeda has become. Yet its strength within the Kurdish and Shiite areas is trivial. After a U.S. withdrawal, it will probably play a continuing role in helping the Sunni groups against the Shiites and the Kurds. Whether such foreign elements could remain or thrive in Iraq after the resolution of civil war is open to question. Meanwhile, continuing the war will not push al-Qaeda outside Iraq. On the contrary, the American presence is the glue that holds al-Qaeda there now.

    4) We must continue to fight in order to "support the troops." This argument effectively paralyzes almost all members of Congress. Lawmakers proclaim in grave tones a litany of problems in Iraq sufficient to justify a rapid pullout. Then they reject that logical conclusion, insisting we cannot do so because we must support the troops. Has anybody asked the troops?

    During their first tours, most may well have favored "staying the course" -- whatever that meant to them -- but now in their second, third and fourth tours, many are changing their minds. We see evidence of that in the many news stories about unhappy troops being sent back to Iraq. Veterans groups are beginning to make public the case for bringing them home. Soldiers and officers in Iraq are speaking out critically to reporters on the ground.

    But the strangest aspect of this rationale for continuing the war is the implication that the troops are somehow responsible for deciding to continue the president's course. That political and moral responsibility belongs to the president, not the troops. Did not President Harry S. Truman make it clear that "the buck stops" in the Oval Office? If the president keeps dodging it, where does it stop? With Congress?

    Embracing the four myths gives Congress excuses not to exercise its power of the purse to end the war and open the way for a strategy that might actually bear fruit.

    The first and most critical step is to recognize that fighting on now simply prolongs our losses and blocks the way to a new strategy. Getting out of Iraq is the pre-condition for creating new strategic options. Withdrawal will take away the conditions that allow our enemies in the region to enjoy our pain. It will awaken those European states reluctant to collaborate with us in Iraq and the region.

    Second, we must recognize that the United States alone cannot stabilize the Middle East.

    Third, we must acknowledge that most of our policies are actually destabilizing the region. Spreading democracy, using sticks to try to prevent nuclear proliferation, threatening "regime change," using the hysterical rhetoric of the "global war on terrorism" -- all undermine the stability we so desperately need in the Middle East.

    Fourth, we must redefine our purpose. It must be a stable region, not primarily a democratic Iraq. We must redirect our military operations so they enhance rather than undermine stability. We can write off the war as a "tactical draw" and make "regional stability" our measure of "victory." That single step would dramatically realign the opposing forces in the region, where most states want stability. Even many in the angry mobs of young Arabs shouting profanities against the United States want predictable order, albeit on better social and economic terms than they now have.

    Realigning our diplomacy and military capabilities to achieve order will hugely reduce the numbers of our enemies and gain us new and important allies. This cannot happen, however, until our forces are moving out of Iraq. Why should Iran negotiate to relieve our pain as long as we are increasing its influence in Iraq and beyond? Withdrawal will awaken most leaders in the region to their own need for U.S.-led diplomacy to stabilize their neighborhood.

    If Bush truly wanted to rescue something of his historical legacy, he would seize the initiative to implement this kind of strategy. He would eventually be held up as a leader capable of reversing direction by turning an imminent, tragic defeat into strategic recovery.

    If he stays on his present course, he will leave Congress the opportunity to earn the credit for such a turnaround. It is already too late to wait for some presidential candidate for 2008 to retrieve the situation. If Congress cannot act, it, too, will live in infamy.

    diane@hudson.org

    William E. Odom, a retired Army lieutenant general, was head of Army intelligence and director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan. He served on the National Security Council staff under Jimmy Carter. A West Point graduate with a PhD from Columbia, Odom teaches at Yale and is a fellow of the Hudson Institute.
    The new National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq describes a war that has no chance of producing a stable liberal democracy that is pro-American. In this critical respect it is a declaration of defeat.
    "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

  • #2
    Not a particularly intelligent column for someone with his education and experience, IMO. Then again, I'm no genius myself...
    KH FOR OWNER!
    ASHER FOR CEO!!
    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      He both addresses the problems and then gives answers for those same problems.

      His message is clear and simply stated. It does not allow much in the way of "interpretation". This message is hard to filter and hard to twist into something it is not. That's because he takes a stand. Any politician saying this would be taking responsibility for the entire war. The good and the bad parts. Any journalist daring to discuss this with a politician would be essentially inviting them to take responsibility for the war. More importantly, to take responsibility for it's outcome. Agree or disagree with the person delivering the message, the message is unavoidable. Many more good people are going to die completely avoidable deaths. Many more good people are going to be maimed by completly unnecessary actions.

      And of the very small group of people in the executive branch of our government, who's constitutionally mandated authority makes them the arbiters of law and justice for our country and this war, none are taking responsibility for the carnage in any meaningful way. Not a single one amoung them.

      Congress must now exercise it's full rights and responsibilities as laid out in our Constitution. Congress must now lead the way forward.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
        Then again, I'm no genius myself...
        QFT!

        I agree though, he's essentially rehashing stuff I've been saying all along - but then, I am a genius...
        Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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        • #5
          And, as predicted by those horrible 'pinko-lefties', Vietnam repeats itself...
          Speaking of Erith:

          "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

          Comment


          • #6
            1) We must continue the war to prevent the terrible aftermath that will occur if our forces are withdrawn soon. Reflect on the double-think of this formulation. We are now fighting to prevent what our invasion made inevitable! Undoubtedly we will leave a mess -- the mess we created, which has become worse each year we have remained. Lawmakers gravely proclaim their opposition to the war, but in the next breath express fear that quitting it will leave a blood bath, a civil war, a terrorist haven, a "failed state," or some other horror. But this "aftermath" is already upon us; a prolonged U.S. occupation cannot prevent what already exists.
            This is the one I've been struggling with. I used to think that "staying the course" might help stave off disaster, but I've been coming around more & more to his position.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              the president's relentless pursuit of defeat
              This is one powerpacked line!

              Comment


              • #8
                "We must continue the war to prevent the terrible aftermath that will occur if our forces are withdrawn soon. Reflect on the double-think of this formulation. We are now fighting to prevent what our invasion made inevitable! Undoubtedly we will leave a mess -- the mess we created, which has become worse each year we have remained. Lawmakers gravely proclaim their opposition to the war, but in the next breath express fear that quitting it will leave a blood bath, a civil war, a terrorist haven, a "failed state," or some other horror. But this "aftermath" is already upon us; a prolonged U.S. occupation cannot prevent what already exists."

                its not "double think". the fact that our invasion caused the mess does not logically imply that our staying their isnt necessary to keep it from getting worse. And thats true whether it was inevitable or (as many think) contingent. Certainly most Iraqi leaders, including the Sunni Arabs, seem to think it (the civil war, the blood bath, etc) would become worse if we left now. As do our military leaders in Iraq. Obviously prolonging the US presence does not prevent what exists now - but it could prevent things from getting worse, and it could make possible some improvements.

                Now it can be argued that given our limited resources, and our ability to contain any consequences to ourselves from Iraq getting worse, that it is in our interest to withdraw and accept that things there will get worse. But lets not try to make ourselves feel better by pretending that it wont.
                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the worst mistake US did was abandoning conscription. They'd never have sent an army of conscripts to Iraq. Funny how something that seemed a good idea not so long ago looks so disasterous now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "Spreading democracy, using sticks to try to prevent nuclear proliferation, threatening "regime change," using the hysterical rhetoric of the "global war on terrorism" -- all undermine the stability we so desperately need in the Middle East."

                    thats the core of this arrian.

                    1. Going back to the old policy of supporting dictators without question to maintain "stability". That has in the past created instability. That policy gave us the Islamic Rep of Iran, and it gave us the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Is our reaction to the current situation in Iraq going to lead us back there?

                    2. Iranian nukes. The Europeans tried for years to stop them with negotiations. The mullahs jerked them around and humiliated, which is why they are now supportive of using sanctions. Sanctions that have led to growing discontent with the regime. Is it wise to stop that now? And what exactly does the situation in Iraq have to do with this?

                    3. Regime change. We have not threatened regime change by force anywhere except Iraq. Thats one of the big lies around. Does Mr Odom want us to promise to never have anything to do with the Iranian or Syrian opposition? He doenst like war (understandable) he doesnt like sanctions - does he want to take away any tools we have to effect change? Makes sense if you dont want change. (are we still allowed to talk to opposition folks in Russia or China, is this a ME only policy?)

                    4. Rhetoric. A rose by any other name will smell as sweet. Pretending we are not fighting a global war on terrorism wont change facts. What does Mr Odom want to call what happening in Helmand Afghanistan, in the Sahel, in the Arabian Sea, etc. Global law enforcement? Mazel tov then. Or a global war on Al qaeeda, so we can make it clear that terrorism by Hamas and Hezbollah is OK? After all thats directed against the evil Zionist Occupation, which has the nerve to be destabilizing by its presence.
                    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: "Victory Is Not an Option"

                      Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
                      Haven't seen this discussed here yet, though it's being much-discussed in Washington and much-reviled in certain quarters. It's an op-ed piece saying that Iraq was a mistake from the get-go, that we should pull out immediately, and that Congress should act if Bush won't. The usual commie-lefty-pinko stuff -- except the author is a general who headed the NSA under Reagan.
                      yeah,really surprising, cause the Reagan administration always valued democracy ahead of stability.
                      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Does this mean we'll see Democrats talk seriously about cutting off the funds and backing their professed opposition with something more concrete than paper?
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                        • #13
                          I see the USA war in Iraq as stepping on an ant-hill, if you continue there, you will not achieve victory, you will just get bitten, the only thing to do is get your foot out and let the thing rebuild itself.
                          I need a foot massage

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lord of the mark
                            its not "double think". the fact that our invasion caused the mess does not logically imply that our staying their isnt necessary to keep it from getting worse.


                            Good, cause that's not what he's saying. He's asking what is the difference between loosing a son in a war vs. loosing a son in the aftermath of that war? The argument wants the U.S. forces to stay so people don't get killed but if we stay people are going to keep getting killed. That's double-think, look it up.

                            And thats true whether it was inevitable or (as many think) contingent.


                            A situation that exists cannot be contingent or innevitable. He is not addressing the invasion of Iraq, he's addressing the continued occupation of Iraq. Yes, the outcome of the invasion could not have been predicted. The situation that currently exists doesn't need to be predicted - it just needs to be looked at.

                            Certainly most Iraqi leaders, including the Sunni Arabs, seem to think it (the civil war, the blood bath, etc) would become worse if we left now.


                            Again, not his argument. His argument is that if we don't leave it can only continue on it's current course. In other words, the insurgents can't be angered at U.S. pressence if the U.S. isn't present. You can call it "assiting forces", you can call it "stengthening support"... whatever. For over 4 years the presence of U.S. soldiers has not calmed nor stabalized the country. What line of logic has them doing so in the next 4 years?

                            Certainly most Iraqi leaders, including the Sunni Arabs, seem to think it (the civil war, the blood bath, etc) would become worse if we left now. As do our military leaders in Iraq.


                            Our military leaders have spoken out, almost to a man, that the situation, as it currently exists, will most likley never improve.

                            Obviously prolonging the US presence does not prevent what exists now - but it could prevent things from getting worse, and it could make possible some improvements.


                            There are two schools of thought we need to be concerned with - those that proclaim they are acting out against the U.S. occupation and those that are not.

                            If they are not, our being there or leaving should not affect their violence in any way. Otherwise they are lying and will expose themselves to the world theatre.

                            If they are acting out against our being their and we leave they will stop acting out. If they do not, again, they will be exposed as liars to the world theatre and delt with accordingly.

                            Our presence is not keeping anything in check. If it were, people and soldiers wouldn't be getting blown up on an almost daily basis.

                            Our withdrawl, however, will provide for either the reduction of violence or the exposure of senseless violence. This will lead to exposure on a global scale and we can then deal with the problem, unclouded by rhetoric and lies.

                            Now it can be argued that given our limited resources, and our ability to contain any consequences to ourselves from Iraq getting worse, that it is in our interest to withdraw and accept that things there will get worse. But lets not try to make ourselves feel better by pretending that it wont.


                            It will, by definition, not be worse because it will lack an expanded target. If a car bomb goes of and kill 4 Iraqis and 2 U.S. soldiers and another kills 4 Iraqis the diference should be obvious. Several factions in the Middle East have hated the U.S. for 30 or more years, what makes you think this is an act? Has it occured to you that maybe they actually do hate the U.S.? And maybe if we get out and let them run their own dang country they'd stop trying to kill us? Or at least make them have to get to us. The people that destroyed the Twin Towers at least had to go through the trouble of getting to us. The U.S. death toll in Iraq is now higher than the Twin Towers and they didn't have to go anywhere. We basically GAVE them people to kill at their lesiure.

                            The thing about the Iraqi invasion that I dislike most is it set the stage for pre-emptive punishment. We now get to act based on what we think might happen if things go wrong. Are we going to apply this new rule of law to private individuals as well now? The street I drive down to get to work is commonly know as the "autobhan of Michigan" because so many people speed down it. So let's just give speeding tickets to everyone on it, because we know what they are doing there, right?

                            The long and short of it is this: the current situation is not working. What makes you thinkit'll start working in a number of years?

                            Tom P.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DinoDoc
                              Does this mean we'll see Democrats talk seriously about cutting off the funds and backing their professed opposition with something more concrete than paper?
                              God I hope so.

                              Wouldn't that be grand?

                              Tom P.

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