Which of the following is the most worthless?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Patroklos


I never said otherwise, but my education is not tailored to make me a service slave.

I don't get it. You'd rather be part of primary or secondary industry than the service sector (the highest-paid, most intellectual segment of the economy)?

[Pekka]

I think the difference between technically educated people such as myself and those who have different backgrounds is that I, as a technical person, consider things of any artsy nature a hobby. It is something I can do when I get out of my office.

Do you think I talk about bits and bytes on my free time? No. I don't even talk about that stuff in my work, and if someone insists, I tell them to get the f out and stop stinking my office, I have better things to do, like surfing on the web.

Now, the point is, there is a need for education for this kind of stuff, because it's not very simple. Neither is artsy stuff, but when you go to technical domain, it's not like there's multiple different answers, nothing is wrong or right.. it's exact science usually. Also, you have to have a wide knowledge on the area, knowing something isn't enough these days.

So, I consider it to be worthy of education, and that other stuff, that's for free time. So no, I don't value it professionally as much at all.

[b etor]

Originally posted by Wezil
Shouldn't you be in school at this time?

i didn't feel like going.

[Method]

I think Pekka got it right.

[Pekka]

I also think the difference is, that we like to produce products. Be it an actual product, or service. It has a value of X. You need all kinds of skills when you go from scratch to the final product sold. Not just technical skills. It's a process.

So when you ask, what's the value or worth of your job? Well. let's take a look, shouldn't be too difficult to estimate!

And I don't read technical books just for fun on my spare time. I have lots of 'artsy' books. I like history, I like lots of stuff I read when it's my time. But do artsy degree people read technical stuff on their free time? I don't think so.

[Arrian]

The posters on this site, as usual, are not very representative of the general population (of the US, or of the rest of the world).

I remember helping some technical friends of mine (engineers) in college with some non-engineering papers they needed to write. You know, for the token history class they had to take. Their writing skills were poor. I was actually shocked. Blame it on the US education system if you will - that's fine, because it's at least partly true.

I know that personal experience isn't a sound basis for sweeping generalizations. Given the nature of the debate (such as it is), however, it's all I've got to go on. Therefore, all I can add is this: generally speaking, in my experience, the technical types struggle when it comes time to putting their thoughts on paper. Of course, their writing skills >> my engineering skills (none).

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

I'm going to guess he's O2 or O3 with 2 or 3 years of service, so a yearly pay of between 35 and 45 k

LT in the Navy is 03, which gives me 70K+ four years after graduatuin with no post grad work.

It's not the first badly written paragraph that he has posted in this thread, either. This piece of illiterate garbage is very ironic ...

There is nothing techincally wrong with that, but then again it is a post on a message board....

[Spiffor]

@ poll. Just gorgeous

[Patroklos]

I don't get it. You'd rather be part of primary or secondary industry than the service sector (the highest-paid, most intellectual segment of the economy)?

Was you choice of education based solely on possible salary? Did you not take interest, talent or perhaps the fulfillment of a dream/desire into account?

I made sure I can make a very good living, but there are things I wanted to do when I made those choices. I am doing one of them now.

[Pekka]

The other difference in the mindsets is when I thinka bout the value of my work, I do estimate it in figures. That's because I have to sell it. I sell my knowledge. I have a price on it. And I estimate the value of the service for the customer in the latest case, so what they get, for example what kind of saving they can make, so money in real terms. Is that estimation accurate, that's another thing, but if it is made correctly, it can show you a direction.

Now, I don't think about 'well, can you really put a number on this service, how do you put a number, because you go there and talk some, an hour or two, how do you put a price on that?'. Well, I do. It's simple. I don't think about, "what about if you compare this to a person who is doing x or y. Do you think the value of your work is different?".

The difference is, I can engage into that discussion when I get out of my office. But inside my office, there IS a price, it is REAL, period. We can get all philosophical about it later on. As a hobby.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Asher
It seems to be a problem with the American education system at large. In fact the artsy people here tend to be the worst participants in debates because they don't think facts and solid reasoning are important in lieu of fancy words (see: FakeBoris).

It's at uni, while studying political science, that I discovered how important facts are.

It was new to me: I used to study economics before then.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Patroklos


LT in the Navy is 03, which gives me 70K+ four years after graduatuin with no post grad work.

Only if you have all sorts of active deployment pay, danger pay etc.

Basic pay O3 4+ yrs 4297.50 * 12 ~ 51k

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Was you choice of education based solely on possible salary? Did you not take interest, talent or perhaps the fulfillment of a dream/desire into account?

I still don't think you're getting it. Making fun of engineering for being a service sector industry is stupid because every intellectual profession is part of the service sector.

[Pekka]

Weird. In the last seminar, all the technical field students got a praise from the teacher who goes through our technical articles. They were written well, for scientific paper. Actually, that has been the message in all of the seminars. I'm yet to see a case that is different. But that's local, not universal. I can see how technical students would write badly.

Besides, one of the most grammar nazi places there are, are them programming forums and/or discussions. Usually the people get upset if you don't start your sentences with capital letters etc... there are all kinds of rules how to write your stuff down, even when asking for help. They HATE bad grammar and bad writing.

[Patroklos]

I ave two years of enlisted service, which makes me 03 over 6, but still only four years out of college.

Base pay is only a portion of what a military member makes. $1076 for BAH, $100 for sea pay, and $200 odd dollars a month for BAS. Plus 225$ HDP and 120 FDP for six months while deployed, and those six months were tax free.

So without the deployment related stuff, 70K+.