The gulf stream not the real heat conveyor ?

[Chemical Ollie]

I've seen worse papers being published in peer revieved magazines.

But I think the authors over-emphasize their own discovery to get more attention. I don't question the theory that hot air streams, guided by the shape of the Rocky Mountains, could contribute to the European climate, but given the much higher heat capacity of water compared to that of air, I don't believe it's the dominating factor.

[KrazyHorse]

Ollie, it depends entirely on the rate of flow of each component, as well as on the rate of heat flow in the water/air boundary.

[KrazyHorse]

Heat capacity has something to do with it, but it's not definitive.

It's an extremely complex system, and I doubt you can make a statement as to the importance of each component just by thinking about it.

[Mercator]

The American Scientist link I gave earlier links to the full article published in the July/August 2006 issue. It's got quite a few more details and includes graphs:

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51963

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I've seen worse papers being published in peer revieved magazines.

But I think the authors over-emphasize their own discovery to get more attention. I don't question the theory that hot air streams, guided by the shape of the Rocky Mountains, could contribute to the European climate, but given the much higher heat capacity of water compared to that of air, I don't believe it's the dominating factor.

You forget the speed difference, and then, how much of europe is actually hit by the gulf stream ?

[chequita guevara]

Simple physics tells me that a body of water has got to have a larger effect than air. The atmosphere loses heat very quickly, whereas the ocean holds on to it for quite a while.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Simple physics tells me that a body of water has got to have a larger effect than air. The atmosphere loses heat very quickly, whereas the ocean holds on to it for quite a while.

Yes. That physics is indeed very simple.

[BlackCat]

Just a minor question. Have you thought about how heat from water are converted into "soil heat" ?

[SlowwHand]

You don't know how Europe has heat conveyed?





Mobius, and his hot air.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
You don't know how Europe has heat conveyed?





Mobius, and his hot air.

Moby's hot air has already been calculated into the IPCC forecasts, so no reason to mention him.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Just a minor question. Have you thought about how heat from water are converted into "soil heat" ?

Probably not very efficiently, actually.

[Berzerker]

I read recently about some paper from 1948 that claimed winds coming off N America were a big reason for a warmer Europe. Now I see why, colder winds come down the Rockies and over the Great Lakes cooling the northeast but then head out over the warmer Atlantic for Europe. But the gulfstream conveyor belt is still a big factor, if the northern Atlantic is colder the winds coming from the US wont carry as much heat to Europe. And judging by glacial extents during the ice age, Europe does seem to benefit from a warmer Atlantic even as ice sheets cover much of the northern hemisphere.

And somewhere in the north Atlantic the cooler arctic waters meet up with the warmer gulfstream. The further north these waters meet the warmer it is at higher latitudes. But during an ice age sea levels are much lower and the world's oceans and waterways are more restricted by geography so the effectiveness of distributing heat via water currents is lessened.

One of the theories about why we've seen ice ages over the last ~30 million years is that the rising Himalayas changed wind patterns

[Chemical Ollie]

At what altitude are the air streams travelling and how do they decend to ground level when they reach Europe?

If they go at sea level, well, that's where the Gulf Stream is. If they go higher, they aren't very hot, are they?

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Simple physics tells me that a body of water has got to have a larger effect than air. The atmosphere loses heat very quickly, whereas the ocean holds on to it for quite a while.

Don't tell that to Venus.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
You don't know how Europe has heat conveyed?





Mobius, and his hot air.

Now I see why Texas is so ****ing warm...

I learn every day!