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The gulf stream not the real heat conveyor ?

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  • The gulf stream not the real heat conveyor ?

    It seems that this 150 old theory doesn't hold water and the real source for warm climate in europe actually is the rockies.



    Columbia Research Dispels 150 Years of Thinking-Mild Winter Conditions in Europe Are Not Due to the Gulf Stream

    By Mary Tobin

    New research shows that the Gulf Stream has little effect on the contrast in winter temperatures between Europe and eastern North America, dispelling a long-held assumption. Instead, atmospheric circulation, augmented by the Rocky Mountains, plays a larger role, say Richard Seager of Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, David Battisti of the University of Washington and their colleagues.

    Published in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society, this new data suggests that atmospheric circulation is more important to understanding climate variability than is the ocean circulation.

    What Seager, Battisti, and their co-workers found was that much of the difference in temperature between eastern North America and western Europe can be explained by the simple and well-known fact that the ocean stores heat in the summer and gradually releases it in winter. Where winds blow from west to east, as across the North Atlantic, the heat released in winter preferentially warms the land areas to the east of the ocean. That this is a big effect is well known, but the new research shows that the winter temperature contrast is much bigger than can be accounted for by this simple difference between a warm 'maritime' climate in Europe and a frigid 'continental' climate in North America.

    The Rocky Mountains play a major role. Analogous to an island in a stream, the Rockies set up a persistent wave in the winds downstream that brings cold winds from the north into eastern North America and warm winds from the south into western Europe. This pattern of movement of heat by the winds accounts for half of the total difference in winter temperatures between the two regions, with much of the other half attributable to the release of heat stored in the ocean.

    "That the Gulf Stream heat transport has a minor effect while the Rocky Mountains loom large in causing the differing winter conditions of western Europe and eastern North America will 'certainly require some rewriting of textbooks as well as tourist guides' says Seager. "But now we must also look differently at theories of climate change, which in the past have revolved around water circulation in the Atlantic Ocean."

    The research team analyzed observational data to first make their argument and then performed a set of experiments with computer models of the atmosphere and ocean to prove it. In some model experiments they accounted for the movement of heat by ocean currents and in others they stopped the ocean from moving. In other experiments they removed mountains and made the Earth flat. When the Rocky Mountains were removed from the model, temperatures in eastern North America warmed, and they dropped in western Europe.

    Richard Seager is a Senior Research Scientist with the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, a research unit of the Earth Institute of Columbia University. The research reported in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society was supported by funding from NOAA.
    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

    Steven Weinberg

  • #2
    Hmm-- interesting. It shocks me not at all that our knowledge about how our climate works is simplistic. It is probably being studied more now than at any time in history adn I would expect that there will be a number of revelations over the next couple of years
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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    • #3
      So America is responsible for global warming!
      I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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      • #4
        You can thank us for keeping you from freezing to death later.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
          So America is responsible for global warming!
          Nope, only european warming - just hope that they don't get the idea that they can improve their cimate by drilling a hole in the rockies
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Flubber
            Hmm-- interesting. It shocks me not at all that our knowledge about how our climate works is simplistic. It is probably being studied more now than at any time in history adn I would expect that there will be a number of revelations over the next couple of years
            You are quite right that much knowledge has and will be renewed, but the gulf stream heating is a bit special - it probably is one of the more common known theories, so if this new one is true, it isn't only the scientific world that has to get a new view.
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #7
              I'll hold the OP in higher reguard if it ever makes it through peer review.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BlackCat


                Nope, only european warming - just hope that they don't get the idea that they can improve their cimate by drilling a hole in the rockies
                with nukes .

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DinoDoc
                  You can thank us for keeping you from freezing to death later.
                  Hey, it's thanks to the bloody cold I was born into a free nation.

                  Lend Lease wasn't enough, you used heat-weapons against us, too.


                  I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BlackCat


                    You are quite right that much knowledge has and will be renewed, but the gulf stream heating is a bit special - it probably is one of the more common known theories, so if this new one is true, it isn't only the scientific world that has to get a new view.
                    Somewhat. It remains obvious that water temperature has an influence on adjoining climate and this study does not show the Gulf stream having zero or neglible impact . . . it simply proposes other factors.

                    If true it will blow away a lot of assumptions . But good . .. too many people accept too much about climate anyway without proof
                    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oerdin
                      I'll hold the OP in higher reguard if it ever makes it through peer review.
                      Yup, you are quite right to distrust amateurs such as "Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society". They really take any obscure articles just to fill in their blank pages.
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Oerdin
                        I'll hold the OP in higher reguard if it ever makes it through peer review.
                        Aren't they just lucky that it already did. The Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society is peer-reviewed. And so is American Scientist.

                        *cough* What BlackCat said...
                        Last edited by Mercator; February 9, 2007, 18:18.
                        Civilization II: maps, guides, links, scenarios, patches and utilities (+ Civ2Tech and CivEngineer)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Flubber


                          Somewhat. It remains obvious that water temperature has an influence on adjoining climate and this study does not show the Gulf stream having zero or neglible impact . . . it simply proposes other factors.

                          If true it will blow away a lot of assumptions . But good . .. too many people accept too much about climate anyway without proof
                          No doubt, such large body of warm water of course has an impact, just that it isn't the main contributor.

                          Actually, if I read it rigth, a stop of the gulf stream would have a greater impact on the US east coast than it would have on europe climate.
                          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                          Steven Weinberg

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BlackCat


                            Yup, you are quite right to distrust amateurs such as "Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society". They really take any obscure articles just to fill in their blank pages.
                            Who, other then you, ever called them amateurs? Lots of reputable scientists come up with eronious theories which get torn apart during peer review. As I said before I will wait to see how it fairs under peer scrutiny.
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oerdin


                              Who, other then you, ever called them amateurs? Lots of reputable scientists come up with eronious theories which get torn apart during peer review. As I said before I will wait to see how it fairs under peer scrutiny.
                              Quite right, lots of wacko theories come up, but I seriously doubt that they ever have a chance to be published in that publication, so you claim to wait for a peer review is moot.

                              Besides, the paper is three years old and haven't been shot down - it actualy is accepted as a fact by the community of meterologists, but first hit public now.
                              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                              Steven Weinberg

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