It's official: atheistic fundamentalism exists.

[Provost Harrison]

And who are you two? The forums answer to Eddie Izzard? More like Cannon and Ball...damn, those two are so crap...

[Lorizael]

Biting!

[Provost Harrison]

Well come on, knock us dead then with your scintillating sense of humour then! I have no recollection of you ever saying anything humorous.

[Lorizael]

I never claimed to have one of my own. The people I want to laugh at my jokes do. There are so many on Apolyton, however, who try so very hard to get the rest of Apolyton to laugh at their jokes... and that just doesn't work. But it is funny, though, in a pathetic sort of way.

[Provost Harrison]

I always thought of you as background noise.

[Lorizael]

*nod* I know. That's why I ramble on about having some secret philosophy I can't tell anyone about. I'm just hoping you guys will pay attention to me.

[Provost Harrison]

I'm all ears. Not in the way Prince Charles is though.

[Lorizael]

Let's talk about atheism.

[Last Conformist]

I don't believe in God for the same reasons I don't believe in PH's sense of humour.

[Provost Harrison]

Well what is there to say? I do get involved with arguments on the topic but I never start them. They all end up the same - the religious elements insist that atheism is a religion and they get b*tchslapped for it.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Well what is there to say? I do get involved with arguments on the topic but I never start them. They all end up the same - the religious elements insist that atheism is a religion and they get b*tchslapped for it.

Did you know that Fez and Ben Kenobi have never been proven wrong in a debate?

[Provost Harrison]

I can believe that...they are inherently wrong from the start, it doesn't have to be proven

[Provost Harrison]

Besides, no one has achieved a successful rebuttal of the pink unicorn yet, nor the spaghetti monster creator...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
I don't believe in God for the same reasons I don't believe in PH's sense of humour.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tacc
You are a being that is capable of an extremely high level of abstract thinking, and thus your actions will be filtered through that. A person may have a biological impulse to simply rape another, but for most people their moral system would forbid such a thing. A person may have a biological impulse to eat, but their moral system may tell them not to, etc.

I understand that you would feel bad about raping someone, but how do you attribute that to a moral system and not just your biological system.

And it is often the case that moral systems simply develop to justify biological impulses - hedonism is a "primitive" system in this respect and because it is so basic people often confuse it for "amorality".

I say moral systems always justify our biological wants and needs, not just often.

In certain rare cases a human may not be capable of high level abstraction and thus may indeed operate on biological impulses alone, but this is not true for the vast majority of humans (indeed, humans became human due to the emergence of this ability).

The only thing that has emerged is man's tendecy to delude himself and manipulate others, i.e. religion/morality. I'm not going to debate whether that is a higher level of abstraction or not.

In some other instances, a person loses the value determination that their own existence is good, etc and thus either do not take steps to secure it or may take steps to end it.

I just can't rap myself around this. If someone doesn't want to exist anymore I don't think it's because they lack a moral system. I think it could be either they suffer from depression or they have rationally come to the conclusion that there will only be suffering in their life and there is no reason to continue on.


[q]
No, i did it for a feeling or to avoid a feeling.
[q/]

Yes, a person will not actualise some value-determination X unless they gain a benefit, and these benefits are reduced to feelings. Perhaps I value socialism because it makes me feel good inside, or perhaps I value it because it makes me more popular, or whatnot.

...


[q]
For what other purpose than to feel good.
[q/]

Oh? Why does it matter if you feel good?

Well, that's only of value to me personally. If I create a moral system based on that feeling, and try to get other people to believe that an action is moral or immoral in some abstract way then I'm being religious.