US Jewish lobby warns Turkish MFA on Armenian genocide bill

[Zoid]

Hey, jew bashing!

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Heresson
And it is true, like it or not, that people of jewish origin played a major role in polish communist movement. Take R. Luksemburg, for example... and, after the war

He was from Luxembourg.

[lord of the mark]

oy.

First, I think the Brus womans case is clearer than Morels, and she should be extradited. You didnt mention her case - could it be because it was UK that failed to extradite, and there were no implications of Jewish hypocricy? Morels case sounds complex, and AFAICT the Israeli position is reasonable.

Holding the Jewish people responsible for the actions of Jewish communists would make as much sense as holding Poles responsible for NKVD hear (Dzerzhinski?) who was Polish. IE none. Jewish communists were enemies of the Jewish nation, who persecuted religious Jews, Zionists, and Bundists.

Im quite aware there were numerous times when Poles, Russians and others were killed due to their race, religion and ethnicity. We happen to be in a thread where I am discussing the likelihood that Armenians were killed for their ethnicity. I know quite well that 2 million plus Poles were killed by the Nazis during WW2 largely for their nationality.

and yes, I know there are instances where Jews are killed in wars for reasons having nothing to do with antisemitism. For example, Jews were killed in Warsaw in 1863, by the Tsars army, while fighting alongside other Poles.

Im not sure how that relates to some other incident you choose to bring up.

[lord of the mark]

BTW, the actual controversy about Jedawbne is whether it was perpetrated by Germans, or by Poles alone, NOT whether it was an act of antisemitism or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom

[Heresson]

BTW, the actual controversy about Jedawbne is whether it was perpetrated by Germans, or by Poles alone, NOT whether it was an act of antisemitism or not.

The discussion was the extent of german participation in it.
Anyway, I never claimed it was not anti-semitic, though anti-communism, greed and german incitement were also important factors.
I simply believe that polish nation can not be blamed

Originally posted by LordShiva
He was from Luxembourg.

"He" was a woman from Poland, actually

Morels case sounds complex, and AFAICT the Israeli position is reasonable.

Morel's extradition was, I think, supported much by Gazeta Wyborcza, that-time biggest polish newspaper, led by a Jew and very pro-israeli... And attrocities of the post-war camps were first brought into broader light by "Nie", which, however perhaps not pro-israeli, is also led by a Jew, so claims Morel's case was antisemitic I find kind of silly, to say the least, and it only strenghtens my opinion that Jews tend to find every criticism of theirselves "antisemitism".
Not that it was something unique to Jews, but perhaps no-where so wide-spreaded, perhaps except for Armenians themselves.

Holding the Jewish people responsible for the actions of Jewish communists would make as much sense as holding Poles responsible for NKVD hear (Dzerzhinski?) who was Polish. IE none. Jewish communists were enemies of the Jewish nation, who persecuted religious Jews, Zionists, and Bundists.

While there was Dzierzynski and Jagoda, polish involvement in soviet special police and communism as a whole is not comparable with jewish involvement in communism at all.
Yet, it is irrelevant. I do not claim Jews are responsible for communism. But I don't think Poles are guilty of Jedwabne, as well.

that 3 million Poles were killed by the Nazis and Soviets during WW2 largely for their nationality.

corrected

I am simply disgusted with that some jewish organisations, occupied with celebrating their own tragedy, are so unwilling to understand armenian case.
Armenians suffered de facto much worse fate than Jews.
Jews are not respected through the world, and every criticism they can repeal by simply claiming it is antisemitic.
They have gained their own country, and, with foreign help and subsidies, got all the territory they could ever dream of, persecuting indigenous population that, not so long ago, was 97% of so of the inhabitants of their chosen land. No matter what law Israel breaks - illegal settlements, illegal land-grabs and illegal posession of weapons of mass destruction, or even little things, like stealing works of art from other countries - it remains unpunished and Israel is ever self-satisfied while willing to point out faults of someone else (kind of like current polish authorities), though by its unilateral and egoistic politics it helped a lot to the rise of islamic resentments in arabic world.

Armenians, on the other hand, were completely cleared in turkish Armenia, which was at least in some part majorly armenian, the same for part of russian armenia given to Turkey, while the puny rest was robbed of more of its provinces - given to Georgia and Azerbeycan, and remained a boarderly province of The Empire of Evil, with armenian symbols - Ararat mountain and ruins of Ani, uninhabited and of no or little symbolic importance to Turkey, were put on its boarders, as a mockery.
While Germany and other countries, innocent of jewish tragedy and having suffered german madness as well, are doing everything to please Jews and not hurt their feelings, and denying holocaust is a crime in Germany and elsewhere, to acknowledge the tragedy of Armenians is a crime in Turkey, and turkish state laughs at its victims by claiming that what's happened was "perhaps the most successful relocation actions in history"...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Heresson

"He" was a woman from Poland, actually

LS is excused, he's from India. They've never fostered any great revolutionarys

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Heresson

"Armenians suffered de facto much worse fate than Jews."

Im not sure exactly what that means.

"Jews are not respected through the world, and every criticism they can repeal by simply claiming it is antisemitic."

Criticism of Jews qua Jews, Muslims qua Muslims, Blacks qua Blacks, and Poles qua Poles are all troubling.


Look, i think ive made clear that im not comfortable with the Israeli position on the events of 1915-1918. But there isnt some Armenian Jewish competition on victimhood. I dont know you, but from your posts you give the vague impression of having a real obsession with the Jews(and no, having an obsession with the Jews != being antisemitic), one that goes far beyond modern ME politics. I suspect youd be happier if you could let go of that obsession.

[Heresson]

Jews are very important nation. I am only acknowledging this...

If I have Jewish mania it may come from that

- I may be of partially jewish origin
- I am from Poland, and Poland has a lot to do with Jews
- I grew up reading Gazeta Wyborcza, and it delt with jewish question a lot
- I study arabic studies, and Arabs have obsession with Jews (kind of understandable)
- I have spent a year in Syria

[KrazyHorse]

from your posts you give the vague impression of having a real obsession with the Jews

Pot, kettle, etc.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

from your posts you give the vague impression of having a real obsession with the Jews

Pot, kettle, etc.

I knew someone would say that, but I thought it would be someone dumber than KH.

You do get the difference between, say, Mr Fun or Asher being obsessed with gay issues, and a straight person being so obsessed? Between a Canadian being obsessed with things Canadian, and an American or someone else being so obsessed?

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Heresson
Jews are very important nation. I am only acknowledging this...

If I have Jewish mania it may come from that

- I may be of partially jewish origin

Your obsession with Jews doesnt have much to do with Jewish culture, or anything like that, so I doubt thats it.


- I am from Poland, and Poland has a lot to do with Jews


My impression is that MOST Poles these days arent that obsessed with Jews.

" I grew up reading Gazeta Wyborcza, and it delt with jewish question a lot"

I wouldnt know.


- I study arabic studies, and Arabs have obsession with Jews (kind of understandable)

I thought you mainly studied medieval Arabic culture.


- I have spent a year in Syria


May I suggest a year in Denmark or Belgium to decompress?

[Heresson]

Your obsession with Jews doesnt have much to do with Jewish culture, or anything like that, so I doubt thats it.

I am not interested in any culture

My impression is that MOST Poles these days arent that obsessed with Jews.

If Jews weren't calling Poland continuation of Hitler's regime and suing it for lack of return of jewish property (while no-one gets it back, not just Jews), if polish foreign affairs ministry didn't have to reply to attacks on Poland by some jewish communities, if Israel wouldn't steal artwork from what was supposed to be common ukrainian - polish museum, if Israel wouldn't persecute another nation and deny its independance etc, I am sure there would be much less talking about Jews and Israel in Poland.
You have to remember, also, that, as I have mentioned, two of the biggest polish newspapers are lead by Jews... it means a lot of talking about Jews and Israel in them.

I thought you mainly studied medieval Arabic culture.

Oh, I would be very happy if it was so.

May I suggest a year in Denmark or Belgium to decompress?

Belgium is evil.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I knew someone would say that, but I thought it would be someone dumber than KH.

You do get the difference between, say, Mr Fun or Asher being obsessed with gay issues, and a straight person being so obsessed? Between a Canadian being obsessed with things Canadian, and an American or someone else being so obsessed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=7302

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/SDNWOTN