US Jewish lobby warns Turkish MFA on Armenian genocide bill

[KrazyHorse]

Just a guess, but Turkey's always liked being in with the West. Playing nice with Israel helped them there. Over time, the Arab states turned against Turkey because of this, forcing Turkey and Israel deeper in bed together.

[VetLegion]

Turkey is too big to be "forced" to ally with Israel. With USSR gone it basically has no military threats except the Kurds. Now IIRC Israel also helped Kurds about Saddam or something. I can't see one good reason for Turkey to talk to Israel.

BTW. Greeks are getting along pretty well with Arabs IIRC, and have no problem being slightly anti-Israel. That could be a motive for Turkey (enemy of my enemy...) but not a strong one I think.

[Sirotnikov]

They don't exactly want to be part of the middle east dude. They want to be western. And they certainly don't want to be muslim. The government and the army are doing their most to remain non religious.

Syria and Iran are disliked and mistrusted by most middle eastern countries.

Egypt, Jordan, the small oil states, heck even Saudi Arabia try to align with the west and focus on economic growth.

Only Syria and Iran are left trying to save their own regime by making muscles and exporting terrorism.

Maybe, like.. Yemen or something is also on the 'dark' side.

But that's the middle east today.

[Sirotnikov]

Turkey is too big to be "forced" to ally with Israel. With USSR gone it basically has no military threats except the Kurds. Now IIRC Israel also helped Kurds about Saddam or something. I can't see one good reason for Turkey to talk to Israel.

BTW. Greeks are getting along pretty well with Arabs IIRC, and have no problem being slightly anti-Israel. That could be a motive for Turkey (enemy of my enemy...) but not a strong one I think.

Israel is a good tool to get US on your side.

Israel might be a good tool to control the Kurd opposition.

Israel is a good ally against Syrian and Iranian threats.

Israel is a good technology (military and agriculture) exporter.

Israel is also a democracy.

[Sirotnikov]

And economically:

Israel is a good client for all sorts of exports.

Israel is a good exporter of tourism and technology.


Israel could be a good transport for oil pipes... (shhhhh - state secret)

[VetLegion]

They don't exactly want to be part of the middle east dude. They want to be western. And they certainly don't want to be muslim. The government and the army are doing their most to remain non religious.

Make that "the army". The government is trying to be as religious as possible without pissing off the army too much and estranging EU.

[VetLegion]

Israel is a good tool to get US on your side.

Israel might be a good tool to control the Kurd opposition.

Israel is a good ally against Syrian and Iranian threats.

Israel is a good technology (military and agriculture) exporter.

Israel is also a democracy.

All that can be lived without. What about the Donmeh? Do they have an influence on things or is that conspiracy theory teritory?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Israel could be a good transport for oil pipes... (shhhhh - state secret)

How do you mean? Do you mean SA+Gulf -> Jordan -> Israel -> Turkey?

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
And economically:

Israel is a good client for all sorts of exports.

Israel is a good exporter of tourism and technology.

Let's try to imagine Turkish elections.

Politician A: "... and on the foreign plan, we shall improve relations with Israel because they are a good client for our wares, and also good tourist destination ..."

Politician B: "... and on the foreign plan, we shall increase aid to our Palestinian brothers under Israeli occupation ..."

Which one would get more votes?

[Sirotnikov]

Make that "the army". The government is trying to be as religious as possible without pissing off the army too much and estranging EU.

True that.
The current government is more religious.
The previous governments were less so.

How do you mean? Do you mean SA+Gulf -> Jordan -> Israel -> Turkey?

Russia -> turkey -> Israel -> red sea --> indian ocean.

Lets try to imagine Turkish elections.

Politician A: "... and on the foreign plan, we shall improve relations with Israel because they are a good client for our wares, and also good tourist destination ..."

Politician B: "... and on the foreign plan, we shall increase aid to our Palestinian brothers under Israeli occupation ..."

Which one would get more votes?

You make it sound as if politician B and politician A can't be the same person.


You mix up the world of realpolitik with true emotions.

Its not like the Turks are really such good brother of the Palestinians... They don't like syrians and they don't like arabs that much.

The palestinians are rarely a true cause. No arab state likes them. The EU members like them much more probably.

The palestinians are a good foreign policy cause, because it serves other agendas:
- directing public rage at a foreign enemy (israel)
- directing radicals to a foreign enemy, instead of local government.
- pressure on israel to get better economic \ peace deals.
- pressure vs. the US interests in the area.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Russia -> turkey -> Israel -> red sea --> indian ocean -----> India

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Russia -> turkey -> Israel -> red sea --> indian ocean.

Syria? Lebanon?

[VetLegion]

Maybe underwater, "around" Lebanon. Probably technically feasible but expensive as hell.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Syria? Lebanon?

ever heard of tankers going through the Mediterranean?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by LordShiva

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Russia -> turkey -> Israel -> red sea --> indian ocean -----> India