Why do men dominate the technical fields so much?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Arrian


Just say NO to Savasploitation!

Anyone who stands in my way will be crushed.

[Lorizael]

Well, yes, those are certainly possible reasons. I was wondering more along the lines of if you had reason to suspect one over the other.

[Arrian]

KH,

Sample size? You're talking about your personal observations here.

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

By the way, it's been observed that at all levels of their educations and careers female physicists have a higher failure and dropout rate than male physicists. As a percentage in each case:

1) More male physics undergraduates will get their BSc in physics
2) More male physics BScs go on to graduate school
3) More male physics grad students get their PHd in physics
4) More male physics PHds go on to postdocs
5) More male postdocs go on to faculty positions

[Arrian]

Any possibility that #5 impacts 1-4?

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Arrian
KH,

Sample size? You're talking about your personal observations here.

-Arrian

Well, of course.

Sample size of 60 or so (physics graduate students whose abilities I'm sort of aware of). 45 males, 15 females.

It would be difficult to design a test for ability which didn't run the real risk of conflating additional issues (say, number of publications, number of citations of publications etc) and then apply this to a statistically unbiased sample of physicists.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Arrian
Any possibility that #5 impacts 1-4?

-Arrian

I have no idea. Again, if it was simple selection bias against women then you would expect a significantly more able population of female physicists than male physicists.

[Arrian]

My immediate thought is that 15 female physicists may not really be a terribly informative sample. It could be that the recent group just sucks for some unknown reason... I dunno. With numbers that small, all sorts of weirdness is possible, don't you think?

Anyway, I think the answer to the basic question is "we'll see," presuming that the current societal trend wrt gender roles continues.

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Well, yes, those are certainly possible reasons. I was wondering more along the lines of if you had reason to suspect one over the other.

They all have their merits, and all have their weaknesses. I don't tend to believe 1 all that much. 2 and 3 seem stronger to me. There is evidence that males have a greater spread of intelligence, while there is little evidence to suggest that in the general public average intelligence is all that different.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by One_more_turn
When my son was born, we tried to give him dolls to play. He didn't even bother. Then we had little cars and trains lying around, he jumped on them immediately.

Now that my daughter is born, we will give her cars and trains first and study the response.

I hope for their sake you won't rerun this experiment with clothing.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Arrian
My immediate thought is that 15 female physicists may not really be a terribly informative sample. It could be that the recent group just sucks for some unknown reason... I dunno. With numbers that small, all sorts of weirdness is possible, don't you think?

Anyway, I think the answer to the basic question is "we'll see," presuming that the current societal trend wrt gender roles continues.

-Arrian

I don't tend to think that this is a terribly important question except when some with an axe to grind make it one. I'm generally against pigeonholing people's abilities based on their gender or race, but I'm also against the current practice in physics of encouraging female applicants over male applicants.

In addition to that official policy there are also a number of unofficial policies in place. A couple of female professors in the department are infamous for going to bat for any female grad student who runs into any problems whatsoever. Including one case where a female grad student has been given 7 tries to pass the preliminary exams instead of the usual 3.

I don't particularly care though, since it's difficult to imagine somebody like that going on to become a serious contender for a faculty position.

[Last Conformist]

I think it's because women have better taste.

[Odin]

I've been interested in MBTI personality types lately and I have read that most men lean towards thinking-based decision making (logic-based) and that most women lean towards feeling-based decision making (value judgment-based). Feeling types tend to make good social workers, nurses, teachers, artists, etc. but are less good at math and science and are horrible at engineering.

[Odin]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

At school the girls were normally better at math than the boys and those few ladies I know that study/have studiesd mathematics were very good in their field.

The average quality of female physicists I've met is significantly lower than the average quality of male physicists that I've met.

"Doing well" in high-school mathematics is meaningless. Anybody who's not completely retarded can learn that stuff if they work hard (which women are generally better at than men).

There are a few really good female physicists out there though.

Lisa Randall

I found her recent book on theoratical physics, Warped Passages, fascinating.

[Arrian]

Thank goodness I found a logic-based female to marry.

-Arrian