Echoes of Vietnam...

[MOBIUS]

Yaaay, another 20,000+ troops into the meat grinder! (That's actually less than the number that have already been killed/wounded BTW...)



Too little, too late I say: obviously Bush is still in denial that he has already lost the war in Iraq...

Funny how history has a habit of repeating itself...?

History does not repeat itself exactly, so what happened in Vietnam might not happen in Iraq, but there are parallels that are interesting to note

* First there is the realisation in Washington that it is not winning. Mr Bush has admitted this himself

* Second, there is a policy of trying to hand over responsibility to the local government in the midst of battle, not after it - this happened in Vietnam with the policy of Vietnamisation

* Third, there is the belief by the US administration that more troops are an important part of the answer

* Fourth, there is an opposite belief by others that the enterprise cannot work and that disengagement must be sought - US public doubt is a theme common to both conflicts

* Fifth, in Vietnam too the president consulted an outside group - they were called the Wise Men and, like the Iraq Study group, they too urged a policy designed to lead to withdrawal

From the BBC

So if Iraq isn't already America's 2nd Vietnam, Bush is doing his level best to make it so...

Which of you chickenhawks actually believes this 'surge' plan is actually a good idea? I want to take names now so I can humiliate you all in the future when this idea fails as it surely will...

Discuss.

[MarkG]

Bush wants to secure an important note in the history books. Even if it means that he'll be noted as the guy who repeated Vietnam

[dannubis]

Well, two years ago I would have applauded this move. Now I really don't know what it can accomplish anymore.

[Snotty]

Its tougher to hide in the desert than it is in the jungle

Also if Iraq is a 'meatgrinder' for the Allies, then the air of London is also, as more people have died as a result of air pollution in London during the same time

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/low-emission-zone/

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Snotty
Its tougher to hide in the desert than it is in the jungle

Except the main emphasis is to take Baghdad's districts one by one in bitter block by block fighting...

It is no coincidence that the most casualties the Americans ever took during the whole conflict including fighting Saddam's army in the beginning, was the siege of Falluja. Which incidentally had no appreciable effect in slowing down the insurgency.

So we're going to have a whole year of US forces engaged in running urban battles in Baghdad just like Haifa St the other day which, depending on their effectiveness, will embolden the US into a head-to-head with the Mehdi army (another US failure!) and maybe some kind of all-out guerilla war with Baghdad turned into a pile of rubble at the end and lots of dead US troops and Iraqi civilians. Yaaay!

150,000+ troops is not enough to keep the whole place battened down - if the insurgents get battered, they'll leave until the area quietens down and come back again (Falluja, Ramadi etc...). If not, the US suffers the type of casualties that might force a sudden withdrawal which I shall term 'Blackhawk Down Syndrome'. Remember, the Democrats bugged out then so if the bodybags start mounting up in the face of increasing chaos they are now in power to actually pull the plug on the funding for the Iraq war!

Diplomacy is needed now, because the US lost the opportunity to win with firepower the moment they ****ed up the occupation!

[Saras]

Nukes. The answer is nukes.

[Pekka]

Undecided. I do agree, that bringing more troops equals better stability. However, is 20k+ enough to make any actual difference, that I do not know. THe figures are very low, at least doubling it up would be a start. But that's just not possible, so, 20k, it's a commitment, but does it make a difference, .. undecided.

[SlowwHand]

Same song, 2nd verse.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Same song, 2nd verse.

**** me!

Even Sloww agrees with me that Dubya needs to change his tactics!

[TheStinger]

I think that my be a somewhat naive interpretation of his target

[Zero]

Its all for a show. appearance of trying is very important in the military even if it is impossible.

poor soldiers.. if this gets approved....

[SlowwHand]

Mobius, try talking about something you know. Like being a dickhead.

[MOBIUS]

I could never hope to compare with your mastery on that particular subject...

[Spec]

And all that time I thought he was a pvssy...

But anyways, sorry Sloww, he's right on that one in my book.

EDIT: about the iraq story...

Spec.

[Lorizael]

MOBIUS, if you tried not to sound so happy about the fact that you get to be right when thousands upon thousands of civilians and soldiers die, we might give more of a crap about what you said.