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Originally posted by KrazyHorse
He stated the 25% number as being a comparison of 130 to what is actually provided on average.
In other words, you're arguing for a 1/3 reduction instead of the 1/4 I used.
Just don't add in another factor of 3, please.
Nope. What I say is that he shouldn't have used the 1/4 reduction at all, and as you suggested have multiplied with the number of hours, just reduced to the number where the sun actually shines.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
With all the thought about climate change, I have a question about solar panels. Given that they absorb more energy from the sun than would be natural - some would be reflected back - would this lead to an energy/heat gain on earth that could contribute to a global warming effect?
The foolish part is that you assume it always will have to be current generation solar panels, or even solar panels at all. We already have more efficient methods of harnessing solar power... and on top of ignoring that, you are suggesting that related technology will not advance at all... ever.
We're talking about how things exist today after 60 years of pouring in billions of dollars into research and development. If there was going to be a revolutionary break through it would have happened by now. Solar is now a mature technology which realisticly we will only get incramental improvements out of just like we only get incramental improvements in automobile engines. Sure, those small steps can add up over time but we're not going to see orders of magnitude improvement.
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Well, it's going to be a decent percentage relatively soon. 20% is already mandated in California by 2017. Not exactly a tiny percentage.[/QUOTE]
That green energy law also counts burning trash as a "green" source of energy in order to meet that 20% goal. The papers hear in California have talked this issue to death. There are some decent sized wind and solar projects out there along with one decent sized geothermal project in the Imperial Valley but we're not going to even come close to the political goal of 20% green power by 2017 without the politicians playing stupid games with the definition of what green energy means (I.E. pretending that burning trash is some how green).
Originally posted by Doddler
With all the thought about climate change, I have a question about solar panels. Given that they absorb more energy from the sun than would be natural - some would be reflected back - would this lead to an energy/heat gain on earth that could contribute to a global warming effect?
It actually depends on the numbers. They could be heat neutral, positive or negative.
Originally posted by Oerdin
We're talking about how things exist today after 60 years of pouring in billions of dollars into research and development. If there was going to be a revolutionary break through it would have happened by now.
First of all, you said solar never would be the solution. That is what I disputed. If you want to backpeddle to it won't be a major contributer in the near future, that would be a far more supportable claim.
I'd like to see your "revolutionary breakthrough" planning calendar you are basing your current statement off of though. Timetables and "revolutionary breakthroughs" generally aren't really compatible. Timetables and incrimental advances work much more nicely together.
That green energy law also counts burning trash as a "green" source of energy in order to meet that 20% goal. The papers hear in California have talked this issue to death. There are some decent sized wind and solar projects out there along with one decent sized geothermal project in the Imperial Valley but we're not going to even come close to the political goal of 20% green power by 2017 without the politicians playing stupid games with the definition of what green energy means (I.E. pretending that burning trash is some how green).
Well, burning trash does have the potential to be "greener" than landfills, though I'd agree with you it isn't very "green". Still, the capability for truely green power to be even more than 20% is there if we want to make the investment.
We probably won't... but we could already with current technology. Which is a far cry from "never".
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
WTF do you mean, "nope"?
That you didn't understood what I said.
Read what Oerdin used the factor of 4 for. It wasn't for an intrinsic efficiency of the solar panel. It was to account for less than ideal conditions.
Wrong.
The panel takes up 10 sq ft and has a max power rating of 130 watts. Unfortunately, solar panels never produce the max power and certainly not for an extended period of time there for a good rule of thumb is that the average daily output in a sunny mid-latitude place will be 25% of the max capacity. That gives us 32.5 watts per hour from 10 sq ft of solar panels.
The bolded part leads me to belive that Oerdin uses the normal inefficiency of solar panels according to max possible effect - otherwise the sentence wouldn't make any sense. Kyocera would be laughed out of the solar panel industry if they claimed that thier panels could produce 130 W/h but in reality only could produce a quarter. Those solar panels can probably without any problems deliver those 130 W/h on sunny days in Arizona as is claimed.
What I say is that Oerdins calculations probably is flawed.
Please pay attention, or STFU.
You too, please
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
I'm going to be interviewing potential consultants next month. I think I'll use this question for one of the guesstimate cases
THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF
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