Rolling up Al Qaeda in Somalia

[DanS]

Further attacks on several positions...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-ex-somalia9jan10,1,208431.story?coll=la-headlines-world&track=crosspromo

[Drake Tungsten]

Well done to to Ethiopia. Just like Afghanistan, when you want results, don't use American troops.

Yep.

[Pekka]

"
Our greatest failure in recent history is leaving our troops in the ME after the Gulf War. Had we simply withdrawn, AQ may never have been formed.


"

HMm don't know, maybe, maybe not.. I think AQ would have been formed regardless, from the ideology of hatred towards west as the capital of corruption of the soul, spreading it's liberal way of life all over the world.

Then again, these wackos started putting up local fights, trying to establish Islamist states in their own backyard. Pretty much failing at that, they somehow got lucky and now the situation is what it is.

In general though, to leave troops is always seen as occupying force by many. It is only natural. If I have foreign troops in my country, even if I agree with them, but if they establish any kind of force there, or potential use of force, they are occupying my country and it will have negative feeling attached to it by default. Just the way it goes..

[Ned]

Pekka, from another thread

"I know that most Americans think that those Muslims started this war. If you look at the history this is not true. And it is also not true that this war was started because Muslims cannot accept Americans being ‘free’ or having a ‘democracy.’

The grievances started due to American foreign policy, primarily the U.S. government for support of tyrannies in the Muslim world and the U.S. government support of Israel.

The spark that lit the fire was the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia — Gulf War I.

There are many books those who wish to understand what happened can read to understand this.

This is not to say whether those Muslims at war with the American people are correct or justified and it is certainly not to agree with their tactics, some of which are against the teachings of Islam."

http://muslimsforasafeamerica.org/?p=48

[Pekka]

Well, that is still generalizing the situation. There are different groups and motivations. That's one thing that has happened, but not the only thing.

We do have Islamists, that would challenge anything else than the way of fundamentalist leading of nations and people. But they have also gained some support, after foreign policy etc has intervened and/or gone to other direction than radicals would have wanted.

[Ned]

Pekka, you also have to understand that the Shah was overthrown because of his association with the US and because of his introduction of Western liberalism into Iran.

When Reagan sent in peacekeepers to Lebannon to help the Palestinians, they were attacked by radical Muslims.

When Bush/Clinton sent troops to Somalia to help "the starving children," our troops became the focal point of hostility of the Islamic locals.

Israel remains a major thorn in the saddle for most Muslims. Our support of Israel makes them hate us.

There is a pattern here, is there not?

[Dr Strangelove]

The major question now is whether the government will be accepted by the southern clans or if the previous status quo, the division of the south into local satrapies will recurr. I'm not sure there is much we can do about that.

There was a report that US air power wiped out a village in order to eliminate an "al-Qaeda suspect". I don't think that sort of operation will win the hearts and minds of the people.

[Jaakko]

The permanent cluster**** that is US military involvement is pretty much the kiss of death as far as stability goes, so the Ethiopians will probably regret the whole thing quite soon.

[Arrian]

The grievances started due to American foreign policy, primarily the U.S. government for support of tyrannies in the Muslim world and the U.S. government support of Israel.

The spark that lit the fire was the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia — Gulf War I.

...

This is not to say whether those Muslims at war with the American people are correct or justified and it is certainly not to agree with their tactics, some of which are against the teachings of Islam.

Mr. Gambini, that is a lucid, intelligent, well-thought-out objection.

In other words, I agree with Ned. The main objections are support for Israel and support for "apostate"/oppressive goverments in the ME, but the troops in SA may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

-Arrian

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Ned
This is the way to handle AQ: get the locals to do it and keep the US military out of the country.

Much of our problem with the Muslim world is the presence of our military in-country. Regardless of the reasons they there, Muslims view them as some sort of modern crusader army and want them out.

Our greatest failure in recent history is leaving our troops in the ME after the Gulf War. Had we simply withdrawn, AQ may never have been formed.

The ethiopians aren't exactly locals in the muslim world.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
There was a report that US air power wiped out a village in order to eliminate an "al-Qaeda suspect". I don't think that sort of operation will win the hearts and minds of the people.

So what is the US accepted ratio of innocent lives for actual targets these days?

We all know for example that the Israelis are happy to kill 10 mostly women and children for every 1 hezbollah member, for example...

[dannubis]

Sad isn't it ?

[DinoDoc]

There was a report that US air power wiped out a village in order to eliminate an "al-Qaeda suspect". I don't think that sort of operation will win the hearts and minds of the people.

Link?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

There was a report that US air power wiped out a village in order to eliminate an "al-Qaeda suspect". I don't think that sort of operation will win the hearts and minds of the people.

Link?

report is we got the head AQ guy for east africa, who was responsible for the embassy attacks. Some local elder said that dozens of civilians were killed. What credence to give to an elder of a village where a high level AQnik was hiding out is left as an exercise to the reader.

[DinoDoc]

Oh I thought there was a credible report.