Why is the West culturally antagonstic towards non-state-controlled institutions?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian
And from that you got that the West is culturall antagonistic toward non-state controlled instituations?

Sorry, but you get the WTF? for the day.

WTF, aneeshm?

-Arrian

It was just a question, where in the OP itself I admitted the possibility that I may be wrong. Europe is pretty left-leaning, and America is slowly becoming more so, so I made a generalisation. There is no need for such an attitude, Arrian.

[OzzyKP]

The West is hardly unified. I think what you noted holds true for those on the left, to varying degrees, but not to conservatives or centrists.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aneeshm


It was just a question, where in the OP itself I admitted the possibility that I may be wrong. Europe is pretty left-leaning, and America is slowly becoming more so, so I made a generalisation. There is no need for such an attitude, Arrian.

1. First off, I'm just kidding around.

2. Second, it's not just that you're wrong. It's that you're so completely and utterly wrong that it's really jarring. It's a true WTF moment.

3. The generalization "the West" irritates me.

I'm not trying to insult you.

-Arrian

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Arrian
2. Second, it's not just that you're wrong. It's that you're so completely and utterly wrong that it's really jarring. It's a true WTF moment.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Arrian

2. Second, it's not just that you're wrong. It's that you're so completely and utterly wrong that it's really jarring. It's a true WTF moment.

I don't think he is all that wrong. There is a suspicion of non-state controlled institutions among the left here. His cultural comparisons seem to be off the mark though, as India has been socialist for a while now and I'd imagine they put much more faith in the state than Americans do.

I think he is off the mark of course with the impression that the west is somehow void of non-state institutions (we have lots and lots and I actually run one) so it is a matter of degrees perhaps.

[Arrian]

He took his understanding of the ("western") Left, changed that to the entire West, and ran with it. That's pretty wrong. I suppose one could be more wrong, but you'd probably have to work at it.

-Arrian

[OzzyKP]

Ok, well then I'll agree with you there.

[Jon Miller]

Many in the US don't like state institutions, and are very distrustful of them though. However, the politicians of both the left and the right like them because it gives them more power.

I personally like both state and nonstate institutions, and think it is some of the duty of the state to provide state institutions. But I consider myself left of the general american populace.

JM

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Arrian
He took his understanding of the ("western") Left, changed that to the entire West, and ran with it. That's pretty wrong. I suppose one could be more wrong, but you'd probably have to work at it.

-Arrian

Even if we limit it to the western "left", it's far too general. Teh "left", whatever it is, would have certainly nothing against certain NGO's like human/civil rights orgs, or charity orgs etc. Many of the left may argue that the state should handle social matters (mainly providing welfare stuff etc.) but that doesn't mean they have anything per se against non-state institutions/ orgs/whatever.

[Arrian]

Like I said, "his understanding of the Western Left." I didn't say it was accurate.

I did immediately thought of two basic types of institutions:

Church groups (generally favored/liked by the Right)
Greenpeace-type organizations (lefty).

Obviously there are more, and there is lots of crossover.

-Arrian

[BeBMan]

Yeah, I just wanted to reinforce your point (+2 )

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by BeBro


Even if we limit it to the western "left", it's far too general. Teh "left", whatever it is, would have certainly nothing against certain NGO's like human/civil rights orgs, or charity orgs etc. Many of the left may argue that the state should handle social matters (mainly providing welfare stuff etc.) but that doesn't mean they have anything per se against non-state institutions/ orgs/whatever.

I've seen many on the left who say there is something dirty and undignified with charity. And that it is somehow more noble to accept a government handout instead of a handout from charity.

Others on the left are wholly dismissive of charity saying that it only addresses the symptoms and is a waste of time unless we address the root causes of poverty (i.e. capitalism itself).

[Aeson]

aneeshm is right that there is prevalent distrust of the free market. And it's there for very good reason. This whole "left", "right", "center" stuff is silly. Every "side" tries to use government to promote their issues, rather than trusting in the free market to take care of them. Anyone who is politically active has given away their right to claim they trust explicitly in the market.

The "liberals" always get stigmatized as trying to use government to promote their issues, and with good reason, but only an idiot would think "conservatives" really let the free market determine how to address pornography, drugs, sex, emigration, abortion/birth control, education, health care, homosexuality, foreign policy, religion, ect... (I know someone will protest about education and health care... think it all the way through first though...)

And there are some issues almost no one is stupid enough to want to leave to the private sector. Regardless of whether or not we agree on how government should implement the fix, we don't want a privately owned military for instance. We don't want child labor, sweat shops, slavery, and the like. (At least not in our country). Those are things history has shown the free market will tolerate or even promote. There have to be checks to greed and competition.

[Arrian]

I've seen many on the left who say there is something dirty and undignified with charity. And that it is somehow more noble to accept a government handout instead of a handout from charity.

How odd. I've never once heard anyone argue that.

-Arrian

[Sandman]

Why do people from Western countries not have the attitude of "To hell with the state, I'll set up an institution which does not need the state but will work on its own"?

The thing is, no-one thinks 'To hell with the state' when they're setting up a charity, or a business, or a trade union, or a religious group, or anything else. Is that your problem? That 'Western' institutions exist within a legal framework instead of ignoring all laws and being subject to no oversight whatsoever?