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Why is the West culturally antagonstic towards non-state-controlled institutions?

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  • Why is the West culturally antagonstic towards non-state-controlled institutions?

    This is a question which baffles me. I have observed (I may be entirely mistaken, but this is my impression) that in today's Western tradition, people seem not to trust non-governmental institutions for tackling the problems of society. They seem to always want to change the government to suit their ideal so that their pet set of issues gets resolved.

    What I fail to understand is why there is such a distrust of non-governmental institutions which seek to help society. I'll give you an example of what I mean.

    In India, there was a long tradition of a dynamic society which did not overly rely on the apparatus of the state. Most Indian systems were ones which did not have a single point of failure - it was only society-wide changes which could disturb them.

    Let us take the example of the Indian tradition of the gurukul. A gurukul was a place to where children were sent at the age of eight, and a bunch of children lived there with their teacher until the age of majority. There they learnt everything that they would need in their adult lives, and they became a well-adjusted part of society (there was no sense of not belonging). The guru-shishya (or guru-disciple) bond was a sacred one, and the disciples or students were a part of the guru's family (the students would call his wife "mother", for example). How did they sustain themselves? By bhiksha, or donations by householders. Every day, the students would go out and request grain and food from people in the locality. It was considered a duty of the householder to give some grain or food to the students, so everyone chipped in. The guru supported himself and his family by means of the gurudakshina his students gave him.

    The next system which worked without governmental interference was that of the university. Universities worked with state patronage, but that was it - the state did not dictate university policy. They were completely intellectually free to do and teach whatever they wanted. It was considered a duty of the king to support learned men, so he supported universities without expecting anything in return. But these grants were not enough to support each individual scholar who was in the university. So how did they support themselves? Again, by what (usually rich) students gave them. If a student was too poor to pay (as was the case with many Brahmins), he could work for the teacher or the university in return for his education.

    This system was good enough that it attracted lots of students from all over India, some students from China and Persia, and a few students from as far as Europe. And education was accessible to all, due to the nature of the system itself.



    The idea was the society was self-correcting - it would not depend too much on the state's existence, it could go on existing without state support and patronage. Why do people from Western countries not have the attitude of "To hell with the state, I'll set up an institution which does not need the state but will work on its own"? This is the view taken by nationalists (of the good sort) and cultural revivalists in India - that we should set up systems which are immune from the corruptions of politics. And they're doing that. An example.



    Why is it that most people can only think in terms of how to wrest political control (communists, socialists, et al) instead of seeing how to change society into what they want it to be? Instead of waiting for your political time to come, why not start building the society of your dreams right now? If it can be done in India by people who are quite impoverished, and if these people can resurrect institutions long dead, why can't it be done in the prosperous West?

  • #2
    I have observed (I may be entirely mistaken, but this is my impression)
    You are. This is your silliest thread yet.

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    • #3
      What Sandman said. People in "the West" are not culturally antagonistic toward non-state insitutions. If anything, it's the other way 'round.

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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      • #4
        I'm with Sandman.
        Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Arrian
          People in "the West" are not culturally antagonistic toward non-state insitutions. If anything, it's the other way 'round.
          Non-state institutions are culturally antagonistic towards people?
          THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
          AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
          AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
          DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

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          • #6
            As you know better, I'll defer to you. However, I have to ask - why are so many people obsessed with controlling the state (the communists and socialists and libertarians and in general everyone)?

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            • #7
              Everyone wants to meet their Lewinsky
              Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

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              • #8
                Because the state has a lot of power, and of course, all it takes is winning some elections

                Libertarians, of course, might tell you their interest is to take over in order to (largely) dismantle the state, as it has grown too powerful.

                The others generally want to use the state for their purposes.

                But the people in general - the average Joe, so to speak - are usually pretty suspicious of the state, if not downright hostile.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                • #9


                  Ninot's answer is better.

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arrian
                    Because the state has a lot of power, and of course, all it takes is winning some elections

                    Libertarians, of course, might tell you their interest is to take over in order to (largely) dismantle the state, as it has grown too powerful.

                    The others generally want to use the state for their purposes.

                    But the people in general - the average Joe, so to speak - are usually pretty suspicious of the state, if not downright hostile.

                    -Arrian
                    Of course. My question was slightly different - why are they even MORE distrustful of vital societal functions being in the hands of decentralised non-state institutions?

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                    • #11
                      They aren't.

                      JM
                      Jon Miller-
                      I AM.CANADIAN
                      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                      • #12
                        Um, you keep saying that, and I don't know why. Why do you think that is the case?

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Arrian
                          Um, you keep saying that, and I don't know why. Why do you think that is the case?

                          -Arrian
                          That was just the impression I got, due to a number of things. The communists and socialists and in general leftists specially seem to distrust traditional or non-state or non-coercive mechanisms. The conservatives (real conservatives, not the ones in power today), on the other hand, seem to believe that the state should not have too coercive a role, and they seem to rely more on non-state institutions.

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                          • #14
                            And from that you got that the West is culturall antagonistic toward non-state controlled instituations?

                            Sorry, but you get the WTF? for the day.

                            WTF, aneeshm?

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ninot
                              I'm with Sandman.
                              Blah

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