Why is the West culturally antagonstic towards non-state-controlled institutions?

[Arrian]

I don't think you're out to get me.

I *was* a tad wound up from another thread (not involving you). It carried over.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

My point is that many people, irrespective of political affiliation, would be VERY uncomfortable in letting this remain private or decentralised...

Leaving aside my opinion that your scenario is absurd (95% reduction in poverty ), if such a thing happened and was really that effective, most people would likely tend toward "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

That being said, yes, there is a tendency to put "essential" stuff in the hands of the gummint. Sometimes it's about not trusting non-governmental institutions to handle it properly. Other times, I think, it has to do with standardization.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Arrian
Leaving aside my opinion that your scenario is absurd (95% reduction in poverty ), if such a thing happened and was really that effective, most people would likely tend toward "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Agreed on that.

That being said, yes, there is a tendency to put "essential" stuff in the hands of the gummint. Sometimes it's about not trusting non-governmental institutions to handle it properly. Other times, I think, it has to do with standardization.

Not trusting the free market to standardize "properly" then?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian


Leaving aside my opinion that your scenario is absurd (95% reduction in poverty ), if such a thing happened and was really that effective, most people would likely tend toward "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

-Arrian

I tmay be absurd, but it's an example. And this sort of stuff is happening in India. There are a few grassroots schemes which are actually delivering this sort of social miracle. The best example is the Ekal Vidyalaya.

These people have started 20,142 one-man schools in villages and tribal areas where earlier literacy was near nil, which cater, free of cost, to 6,04,260 students all over India, and teach them the three Rs. The one-man school can only provide an education upto the fourth grade, just simple basic reading and writing and very basic mathematics, but that is a tremendous help to people who earlier had absolutely nothing.

The efficiency is above 93% (less than 7% of donated money goes to administration). The cost to run one school is minimal - only 365$ per year per school. These people open schools in bunches, after analysing and checking which region of India needs the bunch the most.

It takes roughly five years from a school to become self-sufficient (self-sufficiency means that it can run with only the contributions from the community of which it is a part, with no external help or donation - it becomes independent). So by giving a five-year donation of 1,825$, you can ensure that all the children of a given village will be educated for at least many decades into the future.






This is just one example. There are many schemes like this which are working what can only be called miracles across India. They are achieving things which would be the wet dreams of a welfare statist of a leftist, but they're completely private, much to the horror of those same welfare statists or leftists.

Would people in the West (horrible generalisation, I know, but bear with me) be comfortable with something this powerful being in the hands of anybody other than the state? Maybe this distrust of such entities comes from the fact that the state can be controlled by the democratic process, but these private organisations are beholden to nobody, and can completely screw up society if they want (imagine what would happen if these Ekal people decided that they would favour one state and not another - over a span of roughly five years, the favoured one would totally overtake the other in literacy, and, consequently, all other indicators, in rural and tribal areas).

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian

That being said, yes, there is a tendency to put "essential" stuff in the hands of the gummint. Sometimes it's about not trusting non-governmental institutions to handle it properly. Other times, I think, it has to do with standardization.

-Arrian

Precisely! This is exactly what I was trying to convey in the OP.

[aneeshm]

Here is a brief overview of how massive this Ekal Vidyalaya scheme is. These people, when opening a bunch of schools, think in terms of bunches of 270 called anchals. For the people who are the beneficiaries, this is very very "essential". It is their only gateway to a better life. These people are doing what the state and free market could never do (both for very different reasons), and they're doing it in such a way that the community they're helping will not be dependent on them after the initial period.

How much does it take to open one school? 42 people saving 1 Re. (that's 2.325 cents) per day, and giving the sum total at the end of one year to these people is enough for the yearly upkeep of one school.

[aneeshm]

The procedure for opening a school:

The Concept: Starting A School

The Six Months Process

To start an Ekal Vidyalaya school requires six months of preparation work. The Ekal Vidyalaya Foundation draws on economies of scale by starting a cluster of schools at a given time.

Project Area Selection

Once sufficient funds are collected, a state team assesses the need for Ekal Vidyalaya schools in a particular region. They identify an area for a proposed anchal (270 school area). Once an anchal is identified, the state team selects an anchal (270 school) committee, comprised of trained social workers, and designates a project coordinator and a training coordinator to head the project.

After this initial area and committee selection, the state team sends this information to the central office for approval.

Funding Approval

The EVF evaluates the project proposal. Upon approval of the region and anchal committee, EVF dispatches funds to cover basic start up expenses including a survey of the area, recruitment of teachers and coordinators, and a ten-day teacher training.

Identifying the project area, assembling an anchal committee, and getting approval for funding takes approximately one month.

Survey

In month two, the anchal team selects local, energetic youth and trains them to organize an upsanch (10-school area). After thorough training, these upsanch coordinators survey villages in the 30-school 'sanch.' Apart from collecting statistical data regarding literacy rates, they also interact with the villagers. They inform villagers about Ekal Vidyalaya's model of education and gauge the villagers' interest in the program. The upsanch coordinators report the information they collect to a 'sanch' (30-school) center where a selected sanch committee analyzes the data and arranges villages by priority. Surveying is a meticulous process, but it is integral to Ekal Vidyalaya's success.

Recruitment of teachers

Once a village has been selected as a potential Ekal Vidyalaya site, the upsanch coordinators ask the villagers to form a committee that will be responsible for the school. The village committee then nominates two potential teachers. As a guideline, the village committee is urged to consider four criteria in selecting a teacher:

1. Qualifications - A teacher must have education upto matric standard, be relatively free from economic responsibility to his or her family, and reside in or nearby the village;
2. Mental Attitude - A teacher must be service-orientated without expectation of monetary compensation. The teacher must be dedicated to the cause of education;
3. Capability - A teacher must be able to inspire young people as well as foster relations with local village leaders and with other nearby villages.
4. Leadership - In addition to teaching basic language and arithmetic concepts, the teacher should have the ability to impart skills for the development of the entire community.

During the third month, potential teachers are invited to the upsanch (10 school area) headquarters for a conference. At this meeting, the Anchal (270 school area) team selects teachers through personal interviews and interactive sessions.

Training

In the fourth month, the teaching candidates undergo a 5-day training ## Prathamik Varg. This training further introduces them to the Ekal model of education and equips them with lesson plans for the first three months. After passing a qualifying exam, teachers return to their villages to begin the testing phase of the school.

The first three months of the school entails a learning process for the teacher, students, and villagers. Afterwards, a 10-day 'Abhyas Varg' empowers the teacher to conduct a three-hour school day. (See Teacher Preparation). Once the teacher successfully completes the Abhyas Varg, the Ekal Vidyalaya is formally registered as an 'Ekal Vidyalaya village.'

Inauguration

At the end of the six-month process, the Ekal Vidyalaya Foundation and the village inaugurate the school. The inauguration ceremony is an event, marked by the teacher's pledge of devotion to his school and the upsanch (10 school area) coordinator's pledge to regularly visit the Ekal Vidyalaya. The inauguration marks the official start of the Ekal Vidyalaya school and the launch of a lifetime of learning.

How can anyone say that this is somehow not "essential"? This represents the only chance for people from these places to better themselves. The Indian state has failed them by not delivering on its promises, and the free market is for these people but a dream. This is probably the only hope they have. This is definitely "essential". And the beauty of it is that it can work only if it is private - the state could never have made it work - because of its structure.

[Elok]

Okay, how is payment for these little miracle schools working? If a similar thing started in the U.S. for whatever reason, I don't think we'd especially mind provided we weren't forced to pay for it in taxes; we allow homeschooling, after all. Provided everything is nice and voluntary, I suspect we'd be fine with it. There might be some snags on what kind of standards said schools should have to meet to qualify their graduates for college, etc., but we don't trust anything that's completely unsupervised. That's just common sense, if you ask me; you don't want somebody telling kids that gravity is caused by magic goats or something, and then sending said kids off into the adult world.

[Ned]

Guys, think of what A is saying in terms of medicine. I think most in the West do favor some form of government subsidies of medicine for the poor if not outright control of medicine by the government. Most in the West would, in fact, be hostile to leaving the poor to be cared for by the good will of doctors or private charities.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Elok
Okay, how is payment for these little miracle schools working? If a similar thing started in the U.S. for whatever reason, I don't think we'd especially mind provided we weren't forced to pay for it in taxes; we allow homeschooling, after all. Provided everything is nice and voluntary, I suspect we'd be fine with it. There might be some snags on what kind of standards said schools should have to meet to qualify their graduates for college, etc., but we don't trust anything that's completely unsupervised. That's just common sense, if you ask me; you don't want somebody telling kids that gravity is caused by magic goats or something, and then sending said kids off into the adult world.

This is all very basic education, just the three Rs, and only up to 4th grade.

The scheme is made so that after the initial push is given, the school sustains itself. A school is supported by donations for five years, on average, after which it draws sustenance from the local community which benefits from it.

The donations they get are quite high, because it is linked somehow to Sewa Bharati, which enjoys the support of the right in India, and this same right donates a lot to them. It is completely and absolutely voluntary - I don't think they receive a single rupee of state money.

It follows the standards set by the Central Board of Secondary education - the governmental body which sets the educational standards for schools affiliated to it. The syllabus is set by the NCERT, another governmental body. Of course, if they want, they can choose to use their own syllabus, but using the standard one means that if a student wants to go for further education after passing out of this school in the 4th grade, then his education is recognised everywhere, so they use the standard one. So there is no chance of pushing an agenda.

Non-coercive, non-wealth redistributing, non-governmental, self-sustaining schemes that actually work and work miracles: .

[Arrian]

People are often suspicious of private organizations when it comes to education, because there may well be an agenda that is being pushed.

Of course, many feel that gummint-run schools push an agenda as well. I figure it's fine so long as it's your agenda. When somebody else's is being pushed, then it's bad.

Obviously, such worries can be put to rest if the education is extremely basic reading/writing/arithmetic, without any "social studies" in the program (history, etc).

Aeson,

Not trusting the free market to standardize "properly" then[

Right. Though I'm not aware that the market is supposed to standardize anyway. It strikes me as less "not trusting the market" as "recognizing that the market doesn't do that." As in, the market is all well and good and does x and y well. But it does not do z, so the gummint must.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

The more I think of it...

What this boils down to is filling a need. It appears that the government of India is unable to properly educate its population. Therefore, the people are taking matters into their own hands.

Despite the frequent hand-wrining you may see concerning the state of US public education (and/or other Western countries), the system appears to be in much better shape than in India. As such, there is less need for "grass roots" primary education... though private schools exist and are widespread, and home schooling is allowed.

There is no particular hostility to those non-governmental options. There would be hostility to dismantling the public school system in favor of totally privatized education.

-Arrian

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian

People are often suspicious of private organizations when it comes to education, because there may well be an agenda that is being pushed.

Of course, many feel that gummint-run schools push an agenda as well. I figure it's fine so long as it's your agenda. When somebody else's is being pushed, then it's bad.

Obviously, such worries can be put to rest if the education is extremely basic reading/writing/arithmetic, without any "social studies" in the program (history, etc).

As stated previously, the education IS quite basic, and these schools follow the syllabus which the official educational body of the government puts out. The people donating to this don't really care what is being taught in social sciences and history, their motivation is just to get their fellow countrymen educated. For them, "education" is a Good-Thing, and they want to Promote a Good-Thing for their Countrymen and Country, so they Just Do It.

Positive, inclusive nationalism

Originally posted by Arrian

Aeson,



Right. Though I'm not aware that the market is supposed to standardize anyway. It strikes me as less "not trusting the market" as "recognizing that the market doesn't do that." As in, the market is all well and good and does x and y well. But it does not do z, so the gummint must.

-Arrian

Point is, the task (of educating the rural and tribal masses) is so vast and requiring such organisation skill that the government can't do it (and has failed at doing it), and the market has no incentive to. So who steps in? The political right, who, as stated above, see Education as a Good-Thing, and....

[Ned]

A, is your only concern education?

[Arrian]

Point is, the task (of educating the rural and tribal masses) is so vast and requiring such organisation skill that the government can't do it

Right. Therein lies the difference. The task is different in developed Western nations (they already have, in comparison to India, highly-educated populations) and their governments can, in fact, handle it. They may not do it perfectly - surely not, given the problems the US public school system has - but they can in fact provide a basic education for all.

-Arrian