Saddam has been executed

[Q Classic]

And our character as a civilization, you would argue it to be... good?

We're talking about humanity here.

Also, gainful employment for the pre-teenage butchers of people of Sub-Saharan Africa, so they may rise above the squalor in which they were born.

Let them pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and all that jazz.

[SlowwHand]

No mention of the other two that were hanged?

[Q Classic]

Are they germane to the discussion?

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
And our character as a civilization, you would argue it to be... good?

Work-in-progress

Also, vengeance is God's, not ours. New Testament, Romans 12:19-21 seems a good place to start, and I'm not even Christian.

[GePap]

This was so anti-climatic and somewhat irrelevant at the end. So he is dead. And that changes what?

Not that I care. I in principle think the DP is wrong, but then states make policy mistakes all the time (our current administration being masters of that), and this is not one I will lose any sleep over.

[Q Classic]

Yes, treating the worst. And yet you seem to want to keep those poor souls in Africa from using their hard-fought and painfully-learned skills in exacting information and visiting punishment on their enemies. What, they're not qualified for the job? Affirmative Action and all that jazz.

Okay, so maybe that's a bit twisted. But the point remains. As a society, as humanity, we treat people better than Saddam worse than him. Work-in-progress or not, treating him as inhumanly as possible still wouldn't lower our character one whit.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by GePap
This was so anti-climatic and somewhat irrelevant at the end. So he is dead. And that changes what?

Well, it gives some people satisfaction and enjoyment in the form of some nameless justice that they might not have had before.

It's like a temporary Psi +2 benefit or something. Kinda like nerve stapling, only less religious.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Yes, treating the worst. And yet you seem to want to keep those poor souls in Africa from using their hard-fought and painfully-learned skills in exacting information and visiting punishment on their enemies. What, they're not qualified for the job? Affirmative Action and all that jazz.

What are you prattling on about?

Okay, so maybe that's a bit twisted.

You think?

But the point remains.

What point?

As a society, as humanity, we treat people better than Saddam worse than him. Work-in-progress or not, treating him as inhumanly as possible still wouldn't lower our character one whit.

Except, for example, it goes against US American principles. Hell, the US military had to reduce its standards to bring its methods inline with the Bush Administration's policies. I'd say THAT was a good example of something being lowered...

[Q Classic]

Except, for example, it goes against US American principles. Hell, the US military had to reduce its standards to bring its methods inline with the Bush Administration's policies. I'd say THAT was a good example of something being lowered...

Except as far as US policies go, all totalled, it wasn't lowered at all.

Ah, well. I tire of this discussion for now. Au revoir!

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Are they germane to the discussion?

You think not? How not?
If it's being argued over if it was appropriate for the Iraqis to hanf Hussein, why do the men who did as he commanded not matter?

Your remprse is limited to the max.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Are they germane to the discussion?

You think not? How not?
If it's being argued over if it was appropriate for the Iraqi's to hang Hussein, why do the men who did as he commanded not matter?
Your remorse is limited, and is way misplaced.

[KrazyHorse]

What a shame.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GePap
This was so anti-climatic and somewhat irrelevant at the end. So he is dead. And that changes what?

It prevents him from ever being freed (either through direct action or executive action) and stirring up more trouble. Which, unlike the situation in the first world, is a very real possibility for those being held by Iraqi authorities. Which is why executions in Iraq are justified for serious crimes.

When a society does not have the means to securely isolate criminals for the rest of their lives then execution becomes a justifiable course of action.

The only way around this would have been to have the US hold him indefinitely outside Iraq. And I see no particular reason he should receive preferential treatment in this regard when compared with common murderers, rapists, kidnappers and robbers (whose execution is also justifiable given Iraq's present condition). So to avoid executions by Iraq the US would have needed to commit to paying for the maintenance of thousands of foreign prisoners indefinitely, which is an excessive burden.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
For which, the selling of daughters part or the judge not lest ye be judged part?

Well I did not want to get into religion, but since you brought up the subject . . .

If you took it that literally, you could never put anyone on trail for any crime and sit in judgement of that person. The Bible clearly states that governments have the right to punish criminals:

Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves. For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad.

This is from Romans 13:1-4. So according to the Bible God does give governments the right to punish criminals and judge them. If we could not, chaos would rule and we would not have a civilization left to live in. Also in many places in the Bible it clear states the only punish for murderers is death. As for the selling your daughter's part, could you cite that for me? Anyways the "New Testiment" says that the laws in the "Old Testiment" no longer apply after Jesus died:

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace

Ephesians 2:15

There is a difference in aboration, killing someone who has murdered, killing in self defense, or murder. I think you would agree that people have the right to defend themselves and kill if their life is in danager. When you are putting someone to death that has murdered, they have taken a life and paying it back so to speak with their own life. I know that this does not bring back the person they killed, but if the dp was enforced farily and quickly, it would serve to protect us all from murders.

I can understand how people dont want the DP on moral grounds, but torturing forever I dont think that is right etheir. I also dont take enjoyment from the execution of criminals.

[Berzerker]

Like his son after him, Bush Sr. had no legal option to continue to Baghdad, and God only knows the real reasons why he authorized the abandonment of the rebellion.

Trust me, we dont care about any UN laws if we deem it in our interest. The UN was constantly griping about what we were doing in Latin America. And I actually agreed with his decision to leave "Hitler Revisited" in power, my gripe is that he told Iraqis to rebel and screwed them. Nixon (?Kissinger) and the Shah screwed them the same way in the 70s, told them to rebel against the Iraqi regime during a minor conflict between Iran and Iraq and then the Shah made peace and the Iraqis turned on the rebels. I understand the Kurds wanted a public assurance from Bush Sr before they'd stick their necks out again and his word to rebel was that assurance in their minds.