Saddam has been executed

[GePap]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


It prevents him from ever being freed (either through direct action or executive action) and stirring up more trouble. Which, unlike the situation in the first world, is a very real possibility for those being held by Iraqi authorities. Which is why executions in Iraq are justified for serious crimes.

Please. He was free for 8 months, and he did jack squat. What was he going to do, put on a cape?

When a society does not have the means to securely isolate criminals for the rest of their lives then execution becomes a justifiable course of action.

Execution is never justifiable. The common sense course of course would be not to have life in prison as a sentence if you can't actually enforce it. I know, far to rational an idea.

The only way around this would have been to have the US hold him indefinitely outside Iraq. And I see no particular reason he should receive preferential treatment in this regard when compared with common murderers, rapists, kidnappers and robbers (whose execution is also justifiable given Iraq's present condition). So to avoid executions by Iraq the US would have needed to commit to paying for the maintenance of thousands of foreign prisoners indefinitely, which is an excessive burden.

Maybe you forgot the following part of my post:

Not that I care. I in principle think the DP is wrong, but then states make policy mistakes all the time (our current administration being masters of that), and this is not one I will lose any sleep over.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GePap


Please. He was free for 8 months, and he did jack squat. What was he going to do, put on a cape?

Are you seriously telling me that you think he was incapable of causing a single additional person to die?

[Berzerker]

The Bible clearly states that governments have the right to punish criminals:

Did Jesus say that? He was punished as a criminal and he asked God to forgive them because they were ignorant.

This is from Romans 13:1-4. So according to the Bible God does give governments the right to punish criminals and judge them.

Paul? Didn't he write that while sitting in a Roman jail? Was he saying the Roman government slaughtering Christians had God's blessing or was he advising his captors on their duties as administers of justice

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Did Jesus say that? He was punished as a criminal and he asked God to forgive them because they were ignorant.



Paul? Didn't he write that while sitting in a Roman jail? Was he saying the Roman government slaughtering Christians had God's blessing or was he advising his captors on their duties as administers of justice

No, in order to keep order their has to be a government and a process of punishing criminals that break the law. Thus God gave authority to governments to do this, but not to volilate people's rights, or murder Christians or other people of other religions.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GePap
Execution is never justifiable. The common sense course of course would be not to have life in prison as a sentence if you can't actually enforce it. I know, far to rational an idea.

You're right. Instead, they should let murderers be released so they can murder again. What sort of idiotic statement is that?

Execution is a reasonable method of eliminating the danger that murderers pose to a society when their continued isolation is unfeasible. If you're on a desert island with 5 other people and one of them is homicidal then are you seriously telling me that after catching him killing somebody you wouldn't be justified as a matter of self preservation in taking his life in cold blood? Or do you want to have to wait until he creeps up over you as you sleep to do anything about it?

Iraq may have more resources to contain the dangerous elements in society, but it is unable to do so with any real degree of certainty.

And I didn't forget anything. The thought that the death penalty is unjustified in all situations is tripe. Those who reject the death penalty in the context of today's developed societies (as I do) would do well to remember that.

[Eli]

[Berzerker]

No, in order to keep order their has to be a government and a process of punishing criminals that break the law. Thus God gave authority to governments to do this, but not to volilate people's rights, or murder Christians or other people of other religions.

You're giving me a practical ("secular") reason for government to have power, not a "divine" or biblical reason. Jesus was put to death by two governments and he asked God to forgive them because they were ignorant. If they were ignorant, they were not qualified to do anything in the name of God. While I dont consider Paul to be a spokesman for Jesus, I do believe he was not making the self-evidently illogical assertion that governments rule with God's endorsement or blessing. He was "advising" the Romans that God wants them to be fair or just and that he and Christians were not challenging Rome's authority. That was a key charge levelled at Christians and Paul didn't want to inspire a Christian revolt and get a bunch of people killed.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Berzerker


You're giving me a practical ("secular") reason for government to have power, not a "divine" or biblical reason. Jesus was put to death by two governments and he asked God to forgive them because they were ignorant. If they were ignorant, they were not qualified to do anything in the name of God. While I dont consider Paul to be a spokesman for Jesus, I do believe he was not making the self-evidently illogical assertion that governments rule with God's endorsement or blessing. He was "advising" the Romans that God wants them to be fair or just and that he and Christians were not challenging Rome's authority. That was a key charge levelled at Christians and Paul didn't want to inspire a Christian revolt and get a bunch of people killed.

I take as Biblical reason. You need someone to enforce the law. As for execution of Jesus, even he said this:

Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God.

Mark 12:17

So even Jesus knew that govnerments have power to tax, and also enforce the law.

Their are also many examples in the Bible where God used people and governments that did not worship God to punish people who doing bad things or carry out his will. The same thing happens with Governments, they punish evil people on behalf of God when they really punish criminals.

[Jack_www]

Has anyone seen the Video on TV of them putting the rope arround his neck? Before I saw that video I almost did not believe that Saddam was dead.

[aneeshm]

From the death haiku page:

Saddam stands thinking
Does this tie go with this shirt?
Hey! That’s way too tight!

The twitching has stopped
A figure swings in the breeze
Let’s go for ice cream!

[Barnabas]

was he hanged in the neck breaking way that kills you in one second? that one in which you are left to fall with the rope around your neck, and suddenly, crack, your are hanging dead with your neck broken?

or the other one that lasts one or 2 minutes, in which they put the rope around your neck, and make you rise like a flag, while you suffocate , and die after 1 or 2 minutes..?

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
was he hanged in the neck breaking way that kills you in one second? that one in which you are left to fall with the rope around your neck, and suddenly, crack, your are hanging dead with your neck broken?

or the other one that lasts one or 2 minutes, in which they put the rope around your neck, and make you rise like a flag, while you suffocate , and die after 1 or 2 minutes..?

I believe it was the breaking your neck in a couple of seconds way.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
Wow. How long has it been? Nuremburg?

The Nuremberg trials?

Saddam's trial was nothing like that. His trial is equivalent to the nazi top brass convicted and hanged for something like 'the night of the Long Knives' in 1934, with the trial for war af agression (vs. Iran and Kuwait) and mass murder (vs. Kurds and shiites) far from concluded.

Apart from wasting the bastard, justice is not being done by his excecution.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
was he hanged in the neck breaking way that kills you in one second? that one in which you are left to fall with the rope around your neck, and suddenly, crack, your are hanging dead with your neck broken?

or the other one that lasts one or 2 minutes, in which they put the rope around your neck, and make you rise like a flag, while you suffocate , and die after 1 or 2 minutes..?

From the BBC :

When the chief executioner went to put the hood over his head, Saddam made it clear he wanted to die without it. It was his last action of defiance.

Then the trap door was released and he was hanged. The entire business took just a few minutes.

[Alexander's Horse]

can't find the full video yet

I love a good lynching