Hindu child beaten by missionary schoolteacher for wearing kumkum

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by aneeshm


IIRC, it wasn't Hindu nationalists who did that, it was part of a larger campaign to rename cities to their Indian names, to remove the imperialist stench ().

That larger campaign was led by Hindu nationalists, according to Wikipedia.

[KrazyHorse]

In 1995, the city was renamed Mumbai by the Shiv Sena party government of Maharashtra, in keeping with their policy of renaming colonial institutions after historic local appellations

Shiv Sena (Devanāgarī: शिव सेना Śīv Senā, meaning Army of Shiva, referring to Shivaji) is a nationalist political party in India founded on June 19, 1966 by Bal Thackeray, who is currently the president of the party. The Sena's ideology is based on the concepts of 'Bhumiputra' (Marathi for "Sons of the Soil") and Hindutva or Hindu nationalism.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by aneeshm
rename cities to their Indian names

Given that Bombay was founded by the Portuguese, there was no "Indian" name to go back to.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Why would Hindu nationalists rename the city of Bombay "Mumbai" when it was founded by the Portuguese?

er for the same reason Americans dont call New York "New Amsterdam" even though it was founded by the Dutch?

[KrazyHorse]

Americans are responsible for the British renaming the city?

If this was truly analogous then the US would have renamed New York "New Washington" in 1830...

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Then what's your point?

What's yours? That this was part of an India-wide Christian conspiracy to convert all the Hindus and to protest against free speech?

[DaShi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hindu child beaten by missionary schoolteache

Originally posted by aneeshm


They should definitely have the right to protest. But the government should not cave in to their ridiculous demands, which violate the right to free speech and expression. Free speech is a fundamental right. Full freedom of expression for all!

Adding a disclaimer does not restrict free speech. It protects idiots.

Deepa Mehta should be free to make Water, I should be free to make a movie in which Mohammed is shown dragging a nine year old girl away from her dolls and into his bedchamber. The Satanic Verses should be unbanned. The books of Taslimsa Nasrin should be unbanned. The ManuSmriti should be unbanned (in Maharashtra).

All this is hatemongering.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

In 1995, the city was renamed Mumbai by the Shiv Sena party government of Maharashtra, in keeping with their policy of renaming colonial institutions after historic local appellations

Shiv Sena (Devanāgarī: शिव सेना Śīv Senā, meaning Army of Shiva, referring to Shivaji) is a nationalist political party in India founded on June 19, 1966 by Bal Thackeray, who is currently the president of the party. The Sena's ideology is based on the concepts of 'Bhumiputra' (Marathi for "Sons of the Soil") and Hindutva or Hindu nationalism.

The Shiv Sena is a predominantly Maharashtrian phenomenon, not an Indiawide one.

In the beginning, they wanted to throw everyone who was not Marathi out of Maharashtra. Then, they stopped that and said that they would want to throw all non-Marathis out of Mumbai. Later, they watered down the whole thing even further and stuck to making cosmetic changes.

Their adoption of Hindutva is relatively recent - they were, and I think still predominantly are, a Marathi chauvinist party. And they suck . If their policies had been implemented, I would not have been able to study in Pune (even though I'm ethnically Marathi and I speak the language better than the people here). Any party which appeals to local chauvinism, and breaks the unity of India, is not to be encouraged and is bad.

They also do not share the ideals of national integration (which means promoting nationalism among everyone, specially Muslims, and encouraging them to join the national mainstream) which the RSS has promoted. They are not Hindutva ideologues in the real sense, because their Hindutva is simply a ploy to gain votes.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Americans are responsible for the British renaming the city?

In 1664 that would have been English, not British. Scotland twerent involved.


Anyway anglo americans, anglosaxons, whatever. Names change.


Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople
Been a long time gone
Old Constantinople's still has Turkish delight
On a moonlight night

Evr'y gal in Constantinople
Is a Miss-stanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can't say
(People just liked it better that way)

Take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

Istanbul!!

Istanbul!!

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Is that a gigantic phallus at the bottom of the picture?

In India? Unlikely.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm
IF (and that's a big if) the violent protests against Water were organised or aided by any Hindu organisation, and IF any people from these organisations were named and if it was proven in ANY WAY that these organisations were complicit in the violence, THEN I condemn those organisations. And in any case, I condemn any violence that may have happened in those protests as against the right to free speech and expression.

I hope that makes my position clearer.

That still leaves the question - how does this justify that teacher beating the boy?

IF the teacher beat the boy.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Americans are responsible for the British renaming the city?

If this was truly analogous then the US would have renamed New York "New Washington" in 1830...

No, the US was an english speaking country, and York is an English city. And of course we were inconsistent, thats our damned right, as its Indias to rename some cities and not others if they want.

But mumbai being founded by Portugese is neither here nor there.

Why do the Arabs call Yerushalyim "Al Quds" went it was founded by Jews?

Why isnt London still called Lugdunum, when it was founded by Romans? Why is Bratislava no longer Pressburg? Why did the south Tyrol become the Trentino? Why did Salisbury become Harire (?)

[aneeshm]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hindu child beaten by missionary scho

Originally posted by DaShi

Adding a disclaimer does not restrict free speech. It protects idiots.

It is still free speech you are restricting. If I make a movie, and at the most emotive and moving moment, you put a big banner there covering the whole screen and telling you that this movie is not real, it RUINS the fun!

It was a blatant, in-your-face display of power. Had they been sensible, they would have included it at the beginning, not at the climactic moment. It was damn deliberate, and it succeeded in spoiling the movie. It ALSO succeeded in making people hate these stupid organisations.

Originally posted by DaShi

All this is hatemongering.

The Satanic Verses, the ManuSmriti, and Taslima Nasrin's books are hatemongering? What world are you living in?

And the same argument could be made of Water. At least the paedophile thing is historically accurate.

As I said, completely and totally free expression, with the limit that you can't libel or slander someone still alive, or make historical movies which are inaccurate but present themselves as fact (though that opens up another can of worms, but this can be solved by a simple disclaimer at the beginning).





Notice that now you are the one restricting freedom, and I am promoting it?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Why would Hindu nationalists rename the city of Bombay "Mumbai" when it was founded by the Portuguese?

As much as I dislike the name change, this is an exceedingly silly question.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi


IF the teacher beat the boy.

I haven't seen any proof and I haven't seen anybody names, nor have I seen proof of the RSS being involved in the Water incident. The VHP is a bit indiscreet, though, and some rogue elements may have gone off there. But again, they wouldn't have done so under the organisation's ambit, they'd have done it on their own.

But you tell me this - what motivation does the boy have to lie?