Let us celebrate the official end of the multiculturalist experiment in Britain!

[KrazyHorse]

No, they don't.

[LordShiva]

Yes, they do. In the Nediverse

[Ned]

KH, well the social dems have changed. The Dems here in the US still talk in terms of class warfare and lay on taxes not to raise revenue but to bring about economic equality. I am surprised the Euro SD is to the right of the US Dems.

[KrazyHorse]

You are a complete idiot if you think that mentioning the word "class" to describe economic reality makes you a commie leveller.

The more you talk the sillier you sound.

[KrazyHorse]

Are you even a real person? Because if so, you truly do live in your own tiny, perverse world.

It's like you're somebody with a mental block. You have all the pieces of the puzzle, but you fail to put them together in a meaningful way. Everybody else ends up with a picture of the Empire State building and you somehow put together a Democrat sacrificing an unborn fetus to his al Qaeda overlords while ****ting on the American flag.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
You are a complete idiot if you think that mentioning the word "class" to describe economic reality makes you a commie leveller.

The more you talk the sillier you sound.

almost makes you want to build a machine that completes the loop by increasing the amount he talks in relation to the silliness of the statements he makes.

[MRT144]

also, the fact that the far majority of the phrase "class warfare" is used by him makes we wondering who is really stirring the pot. is it the people who invoke it every other post, or those who never mention it at all?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Ned
KH, well the social dems have changed. The Dems here in the US still talk in terms of class warfare and lay on taxes not to raise revenue but to bring about economic equality. I am surprised the Euro SD is to the right of the US Dems.

Ned, the Euro Conservatives are often on the left of the US Dems. They may not talk in terms of class warfare (except reverse class warfare - universities here are marginally less stringent to those from state schools), but they believe in universal healthcare, would pay more for an education system than dems and less on the military.

However they certainly aren't communists, or socialists, in any way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And here we once again see the Nediverse... look at its strange ways.

[TheStinger]

Margaret Thatcher was of course a closet commie

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
No, they don't.

In fairness, the word Social Democrat has been used by different folks in different places. The distinction you draw between "social democrats" and "democratic socialists" though IMO a useful one, is not a universal usage. The interwar German Social Democrats, for example, who very much were NOT Communists, did include Marxists and others who very much aspired to "Socialism".

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Drogue

No, there's a distinct difference. Social Democrats believe in a capitalist economy with high, progressive tax and the public services and welfare programmes to match. Communists believe in a non-capitalist system, where exchange is done without money and where labour holds all value, rather than capital having an impact.

Again, thats not really true. There have certainly over the years been folks who were definitely Marxist, and believed in the abolition of capitalism, who were explicitly NOT Communist. Communist parties, from 1917 through 1968 were those that followed a Leninist line, of revolution by a vanguard party. Many Marxists and other socialists did NOT follow that line.

Now after the invasiion of Czecho in 1968 many commie parties, attempting to maintain popularity ( or perhaps fearing for their own autonomy) began to distance themselves from their roots and adopt a "eurocommunist" line. IMHO that was always ideologically confused - there was no reason to be "communists" in that case. I once heard the leader of the Spanish Communists actually more or less admit to such. To a great extent (esp in Spain) it was simply a matter of historic memory and keeping an organization. In other places (like France, IIUC) it was closer to hypocrisy and fraud. Italy was in between, and a matter of much dispute.

Now with the appeal of third way politics in the 90s, and the shift of socialist parties toward a more "right social democratic" line, there is more room for a socialist alternative, and the eurocommie parties have jumped at the chance to find a niche. Some have even dropped the name communist, but others have not. IMHO this has led to great confusion about what Communism is and was.

[Ned]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
You are a complete idiot if you think that mentioning the word "class" to describe economic reality makes you a commie leveller.

The more you talk the sillier you sound.

KH, I think you are the one with your head in the sand. Gore, for example, liberally speaks about the so-called Social Contract and class warfare.

"Rousseau's version of the social contract is the one most often associated with the term "social contract" itself. His theories had an influence on both the 1789 French Revolution and the subsequent formation of the socialist movement. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

"Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control.[1] This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or it may be indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. (It should be stressed that with regard to the state, the issue of who controls the state is crucial.) As an economic system, socialism is often associated with state, community or worker ownership of the means of production"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist

There is no doubt that when the Dems speak of the social contract and class and of regulating the economy for the good of society that they are socialists at heart. You seem to confine socialism to the more radical elements that demand actual ownership of the means of production, making distinctions where none exist except in degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy :

"Social democratic political parties are a feature of many democratic countries, and are found in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere. Over the course of the twentieth century, parties such as the British Labour Party, the German SPD and the Australian Labor Party stood in elections on political platforms that included policies such as stronger labor laws, nationalization of major industries, and a strong welfare state. Most European social democratic parties are members of the Party of European Socialists, which is one of the main political parties at the European level, and most social democratic parties are members of the Socialist International, which is the historical successor to the Second International."

Recently, our esteemed Dem leader, Dean the Scream, attended the conference of European Socialists and was welcomed as a brother. He said that he was one of them.

Do I really need to say more?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Drogue

Ned, the Euro Conservatives are often on the left of the US Dems. They may not talk in terms of class warfare (except reverse class warfare - universities here are marginally less stringent to those from state schools), but they believe in universal healthcare, would pay more for an education system than dems and less on the military.

However they certainly aren't communists, or socialists, in any way.

You'd be surprised just how far left American Dems are.

The difference between a liberal and a socialist concerning healthcare for the poor would be this:

The liberal would want provide aid to the poor in terms of insurance and the like. The socialist would want to take over all forms of medicine in the name of helping the poor.

See the difference?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And here we once again see the Nediverse... look at its strange ways.

For a Republican leader, you seem strangely pink.