New Liberal Leader Declares War on Alberta

[Asher]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme
I'm not talking about politics though if you know what I mean.
I KNOW, just like you that most Canadians don't have the environment as first priority.
But it is one of MY top priority.
From that perspective, Dion is superior to Harper by far no?

From an environmental perspective? It depends.

I'd rather have a job than be unemployed but happy that we reduced our emissions by 2%.

I think Dion is a head-in-the-clouds neo-hippy that does no one any good except similar neo-hippy environmentalists.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Asher

From an environmental perspective? It depends.

I'd rather have a job than be unemployed but happy that we reduced our emissions by 2%.

I think Dion is a head-in-the-clouds neo-hippy that does no one any good except similar neo-hippy environmentalists.

Personally, I think in this particular case that argument is over done.
As I said, countries that have actually pushed the environmental issue usually had less negative impact then Rona Ambrose would let you believe.

Now that's not a sure sign of what would happen here, so none of us have any conclusive proof.

Personnaly I think we could have a real environmental agenda, with acceptable economical impact.
I vote neither Dion or Harper, but if I had to choose between the two, it would be Dion because of this issue, which I consider to be very important.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme
Personally, I think in this particular case that argument is over done.
As I said, countries that have actually pushed the environmental issue usually had less negative impact then Rona Ambrose would let you believe.

And do said countries have an enormous resource industry?
Are said countries in similar climates with equally-growing population bases?
Are said countries' populations spread out over a great an area?

No, no, and no.

[Wezil]

If the environment is one's main issue, wouldn't the Green Party be a more sensible party to vote for?

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Asher

And do said countries have an enormous resource industry?
Are said countries in similar climates with equally-growing population bases?
Are said countries' populations spread out over a great an area?

No, no, and no.

I'm not going to argue with you on this.
I know we disagree. I am not certain I'm right but I like discussing this, but I also know how conducive this place is for this kind of argument and how, hum, open you are about arguments

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Wezil
If the environment is one's main issue, wouldn't the Green Party be a more sensible party to vote for?

Originally posted by LulThyme
I vote neither Dion or Harper

To explain more, I did vote Green last election.
I might do again, I'd have to check their and other partie's platform next election.
Actually I'm in Europe now so it will be a lot of trouble, I'll have to see.

[Asher]

The simple facts are you are wrong.

It doesn't matter if Iceland cut its emissions by 2%. That doesn't mean Canada can.

Hell, Richard Simmons lost 200 lbs. But I don't expect Calista Flockhart to do the same.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Wezil
If the environment is one's main issue, wouldn't the Green Party be a more sensible party to vote for?

Perhaps. If its your main issue because you want "greener" policies. Obviously some people would care fervently about the enviroment issue and not want strict rules.

Also it might be your main or first issue but their are tonnes more that matter to you. IN that case I can see you evaluating parties and candidates on a broad spectrum

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Asher
The simple facts are you are wrong.

It doesn't matter if Iceland cut its emissions by 2%. That doesn't mean Canada can.

Hell, Richard Simmons lost 200 lbs. But I don't expect Calista Flockhart to do the same.

See the constructive tone we use in conversations here.
I'll reply in Asher tone :


Canada CAN cut emissions.
What is important is at what cost?
So your statement above was wrong.

(note, I know you implied costs, but it's much easier to attack strawmen isn't it? Who mentionned Iceland?)

Btw this isnt how I would disscus it if speaking to you in RL, because this is totally not constructive and were just banging heads, trying to be "right".



Another point I would to make is for me this isn't just about emissions.
Sure everybody focuses on those because of Kyoto.

Here's one example.
Dunno how it works where you are, but in Quebec, soft drink cans and bottles are hum, can't recall the word but you pay extra when you buy em, and you get the money back when somebody brings em back, to encourage recycling.

Since a few years, water bottles have become crazy popular and now account for the majority of such kind of bottles.
If you think about the rationale behind the law for soft drinks, there is no reason why it shouldn't apply to water bottles, in fact it's the same bottles.
The momentum is a bit gone these days so the lobbies have been able to resist including water bottles in such laws.

I could go on and on. I wish we had gov (at all levels, btw, not just federal) that had a bit more balls in pushing many of these issues.


I won't go on with you in this thread though Asher.
I know you're probably ok in RL, but in this forum, it's really a waste of time for both of use to discuss this don't you think so?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme
Here's one example.
Dunno how it works where you are, but in Quebec, soft drink cans and bottles are hum, can't recall the word but you pay extra when you buy em, and you get the money back when somebody brings em back, to encourage recycling.

Since a few years, water bottles have become crazy popular and now account for the majority of such kind of bottles.
If you think about the rationale behind the law for soft drinks, there is no reason why it shouldn't apply to water bottles, in fact it's the same bottles.
The momentum is a bit gone these days so the lobbies have been able to resist including water bottles in such laws.

Huh...that's odd because I remember taking my water bottles to recycle in Calgary all the time, and I got deposit money back.

One thing I noticed, actually, is Calgary is way more into recycling than Toronto is. Which is curious, considering Albertans don't care about the environment, right?

I'm also not sure how recycling water bottles reduces our CO2 emissions. Isn't the process of recycling plastics actually requiring lots of heat?

[Wezil]

Lul Thyme - The English phrase you were looking for is "deposit".

Money paid up front to be refunded when the bottle is returned.

[Arcite]

Hehe Canadian politics are getting interesting again.

Yea, I'm a Liberal.

[Wezil]

I think they got significantly less interesting over the weekend.

Dion will not inspire too many Canadians. Liberals picked a 'safe' representative wrt internal party politics and a dud for the general election.

Dion was the second choice of the vast majority of Liberal delegates. It is beyond me how anyone thinks he will be the first choice of Canadians at the polls.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Wezil
I think they got significantly less interesting over the weekend.

Dion will not inspire too many Canadians. Liberals picked a 'safe' representative wrt internal party politics and a dud for the general election.

Dion was the second choice of the vast majority of Liberal delegates. It is beyond me how anyone thinks he will be the first choice of Canadians at the polls.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but this specific election should be an example that there are many circumstances in which people will vote for their second choice...
Happens a lot at the federal elections I think.

[Wezil]

He was second choice among his own party members.