New Liberal Leader Declares War on Alberta

[Wezil]

I interpret not fulfilling commitments to be equivelant to 'backing out'. At least Harper was honest about it.

[DinoDoc]

Why doesn't Alberta leave? It's clear they don't seem to be liked by the rest of the country who seem to see them as a piggy bank to be raided for cash whenever the feeling hits and a target for scorn in the interm.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Asher

Canada is not a green country, we're one of the worst offenders.

Kyoto's already a joke -- who is really abiding by it? Chretien is the one who made the commitment he should've known would be impossible to meet for Canada. His environment minister especially.

No argument here.

The image we have of ourselves and the one we want to project internationaly are those of a green nation though.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Richelieu
No argument here.

The image we have of ourselves and the one we want to project internationaly are those of a green nation though.

And a smart leader would recognize we are not a green nation, and given our geographical and societal situations, promising to reduce our greenhouse gases by that much in such a short period of time is laughably stupid.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Asher

And a smart leader would recognize we are not a green nation, and given our geographical and societal situations, promising to reduce our greenhouse gases by that much in such a short period of time is laughably stupid.

You're describing Harper. He's governing the country so he has to deal with reality.

Dion on the other hand just wants to get elected and he's going to appeal to what he thinks Canadians want to hear. He's going to say that Harper just gave up, made us look bad etc... while at the same time not giving any indication on how exactly he would perform his miracles to meet the Kyoto targets. He doesn't need to: he just needs to sell his story. And i'm thinking he's going to succeed.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Richelieu
You're describing Harper. He's governing the country.

Err...Harper did not agree to Kyoto. In fact he saved face by recognizing it was a pipe dream and tossed it rather than lie to people about insisting we'd do it.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Asher

Err...Harper did not agree to Kyoto. In fact he saved face by recognizing it was a pipe dream and tossed it rather than lie to people about insisting we'd do it.

You misunderstand what i'm saying: Harper is governing the country so he has to deal with the fact that we can't meet our commitments. He did the only thing possible/rational/sensible AFAIC. But who cares about reason in Canadian politics?

Dion is not going to let him get away with doing the smart thing because doing the smartt thing makes us look bad. Dion is going to point out that Harper = Alberta = oil = give up Kyoto. Whether or not this is based in reality has no importance. He's going to try to repolarize the opinions on the old fractal lines: The West, the Center and the Maritimes. It worked for the Liberals before and he's betting it will work again.

[Lul Thyme]

Harper basically openly admitted they are doing nothing about the environment.
Granted, the Liberals made a lot of promises and also basically did nothing.
Now forget politics for a while,
I would really like to know, Asher, what you think is a sensible environmental policy.
It's easy to say Kyoto was not doable, and while that may be true, we havn't actually tried.
In Europe, a lot of countries have made a lot of progress and it hasn't hurt their economies much like we are promised all the time (see Germany, etc...)

[Asher]

First of all, an international coalition is not the way to fix a problem in a country. Find your own way of doing it, set your own goals, and go about it.

Consider tax breaks for hybrid cars, consider research funds for alternative fuels (the SO volunteers at the University of Waterloo fuel cell lab and they are very much underfunded), consider more tax breaks for businesses who reduce their emissions, consider rebates for people upgrading their furnaces to newer, more efficient models, etc. If the government is serious about this, they need to convince Canadians to take part.

Targeting Alberta is simply stupid. It helps no one. If you get people to consume less fossil fuels, the Alberta "problem" solves itself.

[Asher]

Also, consider better public transit. Toronto still lacks a 24-hr subway, and its subway is really only two lines.

The government is so inept in terms of public infrastructure that more and more people resort to cars.

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Asher
First of all, an international coalition is not the way to fix a problem in a country. Find your own way of doing it, set your own goals, and go about it.

Consider tax breaks for hybrid cars, consider research funds for alternative fuels (the SO volunteers at the University of Waterloo fuel cell lab and they are very much underfunded), consider more tax breaks for businesses who reduce their emissions, consider rebates for people upgrading their furnaces to newer, more efficient models, etc. If the government is serious about this, they need to convince Canadians to take part.

Targeting Alberta is simply stupid. It helps no one. If you get people to consume less fossil fuels, the Alberta "problem" solves itself.

Maybe I'm naive, but personnaly think Dion has more chance of doing a lot of these then any Conservatives.
What do you think?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Lul Thyme
Maybe I'm naive, but personnaly think Dion has more chance of doing a lot of these then any Conservatives.
What do you think?

I think it doesn't matter if Dion creates bigger issues, such as economic problems...

The only way Canadians will care about the environment is if there aren't bigger fishes to fry. And the first thing Dion did is stir **** up so the bigger fishes are swimming about.

[Flubber]

I don't see the article as being "war on Alberta" but its an unsurprising electoral reality.


Alberta has 28 seats IIRC-- Conservatives currently hold 28 and the Liberals could realistically HOPE to get maybe 2 an any near term election and the most realistic result is they get ZERO.

So Dion announces policies that may peeve Alberta but cost him nothing in the next election. Whether it is smart government is irrelevant at this point-- IT is smart electioneering and thats what Dion is focused on right now

[Lul Thyme]

Originally posted by Asher

I think it doesn't matter if Dion creates bigger issues, such as economic problems...

The only way Canadians will care about the environment is if there aren't bigger fishes to fry. And the first thing Dion did is stir **** up so the bigger fishes are swimming about.

I'm not talking about politics though if you know what I mean.
I KNOW, just like you that most Canadians don't have the environment as first priority.
But it is one of MY top priority.
From that perspective, Dion is superior to Harper by far no?

[Asher]

I will stop, I will stop at nothing.
Say the right things when electioneering
I trust I can rely on your vote.

When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.
When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.
Ha ha ha

Riot shields, voodoo economics,
it's just business, cattle prods and the I.M.F.
I trust I can rely on your vote.

When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.
When I go forwards you go backwards
and somewhere we will meet.