Ken Kutaragi replaced as president of Sony's gaming unit

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
I could have sworn I heard Asher yelling something about the XBox finally breaking even on a unit-by-unit basis. Huh. So...Nintendo is currently the only one of the three that's actually making money, with MS on a massive dumping spree and Sony trying to sell overpriced electronic snake oil nobody will buy? Is that the size of it?

The Xbox 360 is making $75 per console right now, which is not what Kuci is talking about.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
You seemed to contract yourself pretty readily.

First of all you say they're not intimidated by a bunch of buttons on their remotes...but they would be on a controller?

You seem to be unable to distinguish me from Q^3.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Yes.

Err. What?

How can MS be on a massive spending spree now that they're slated to make a large profit on the 360 this holiday season?

You're confusing previous quarters results (where the 360 was sold at a loss) to the current, where it's making a profit per unit sold and software sales are through the roof.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Offline messaging in ICQ, for one. You dissed it when someone brought it up as a reason for using ICQ ("Instant message is supposed to be just that; if you want to leave something, use email."), and then listed it at the top in a brag thread about some new version of MSN Messenger.

xpost*2

First of all, I listed it as a new feature in the latest MSN Messenger. Are you suggesting I should omit new features I list if I don't want to use them? that would be stupid.

Second of all, I use Google Talk, not MSN Messenger.

[Asher]

While it is a good thing Nintendo is turning a profit, the real issue and the one that shareholders most care about is marketshare, revenue, and sales.

Nintendo's home console sales are declining at a very, very consistent rate despite their new strategy to undercut the opposition and offer "simple, fun games". That's why Nintendo is in trouble, and pointing out they make a profit isn't the point.

Third parties are less likely to support a company whose marketshare keeps shrinking, and in the end you'll have less on your console to play, which in turn hurts sales even more. That's what's happened since the SNES and it's going to keep happening unless Nintendo adopts a winning strategy to gain real marketshare.

[Elok]

Asher, you are not a normal person. Neither am I, but I'm closer. Normal people don't become sexually aroused when they hear the word "megahertz," nor do they post gloat/rants about technical specs every couple of days online. Idunno what Star Wars Ki is, but Wii players look mildly silly at worst. Wii looks like something a normal, well-adjusted person might play with friends who don't crack Mystery Science Theater jokes nonstop and stain the sofa they sit on. That's Nintendo's strength, and they're playing to it.

And I'm aware that MS has deep pockets, but they're digging into 'em at a stellar rate, aren't they? Do you mean that they'll be selling the XBox 360 at $200 and turning a profit, whereas Nintendo can't possibly drop fifty bucks at the same time? Or are you suggesting that Nintendo will become (afaik) the first-ever instance of a game company RAISING the price of a console after its launch?

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

I take it you don't understand what gameplay is.

Gameplay is not a control scheme, it is the underlying game. A game that revolves around using the Wii controllers to throw objects around (let's not forget the Wii's very weak physics capabilities, by the way) is not much of a game. You'd need to map other kind of actions to the control scheme as well. For instance, what is the game.

Eh, to me, this is like talking about a certain aspect of say, NFS: MW/Carbon. Say, the police chases, which IMO were the best part of the game. Focusing on this part of the game, does not mean the game doesn't include other things. Just like how a discussion of how the Wii controllers could be used to manipulate objects doesn't mean the game wouldn't also include piloting vehicles or whatever.

Things that are NOT gameplay include: how nice the graphics are, something I only see you bringing up constantly.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


You miss the true power of this - you don't need to have scripted actions like "close the blast door." You can design it so the player can pick up almost any object. Here's the difference:

Character is being pursued by Stormtroopers through a cave or canyon. There are loose rocks and boulders all over the walls of the cave or canyon.

Your version:
An icon flashes or a boulder lights up, indicating you can cause it to slip and fall and crush the Stormtroopers. You make a gesture and it happens.

Mine:
You see the rocks, decide to turn around and grab them and chuck them down, where they crush the stormtroopers.

Now imagine that in multiplayer. Doing stuff like Vader did in the duel on Bespin, without any scripting.

No, I didn't, I simply felt including something like that would merely lead Asher to bash on how the Wii just isn't capable of doing anything like that, because it is an overclocked Famicom.

[Kuciwalker]

No, I didn't, I simply felt including something like that would merely lead Asher to bash on how the Wii just isn't capable of doing anything like that, because it is an overclocked Famicom.

How right you were

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
Things that are NOT gameplay include: how nice the graphics are, something I only see you bringing up constantly.

I've been specifically talking about physics/AI/etc and not graphics. Though graphics do help with the immersion.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
How right you were

Have you guys ever written code for a G3?

I have.

It's not fun, nor powerful.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
Asher, you are not a normal person. Neither am I, but I'm closer. Normal people don't become sexually aroused when they hear the word "megahertz," nor do they post gloat/rants about technical specs every couple of days online. Idunno what Star Wars Ki is, but Wii players look mildly silly at worst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU

Millions of people look like this while playing Wii. Just found it funny when you painted it like the hardcore gamer as the fat guy, etc. This is the kind of player Wii is targeting. People like Kuci and Star Wars Kid.

And I'm aware that MS has deep pockets, but they're digging into 'em at a stellar rate, aren't they?

Just as stellar as their record profits.

Do you mean that they'll be selling the XBox 360 at $200 and turning a profit, whereas Nintendo can't possibly drop fifty bucks at the same time? Or are you suggesting that Nintendo will become (afaik) the first-ever instance of a game company RAISING the price of a console after its launch?

I'm suggesting Nintendo won't drop their console price for at least a year to prevent early adopts from feeling royally ripped off.

I'm also suggesting that Microsoft will drop the price of the 360 in the near year when their new smaller, cheaper, easier to produce chips come on line in "Spring 07".

[Verto]

Also, while Nintendo is obviously aiming to attract new people for the Wii, it is not an either/or situation. Yes, they want new people who previously were not gamers, but that doesn't mean Nintendo plans to ignore regular/"hardcore" gamers.

Whether or not they accomplish their goal of bringing in new people is yet to be seen. However, to write the Wii off as another failure is a bit premature, and IMO ultimately going to be a false prediction. The Wii seems to be generating a lot of interest amongst both consumers (just look at the number of online searches being done for it) and developers. A lot of companies seem to think the Wii controllers will allow them to do a lot, creatively. While Nintendo is, understandably, doing the best to showcase these features at launch, once we get past the initial port-a-game-and-tack-on-some-neat-controls (ala Zelda) and start seeing games developed properly for the Wii, I think the Wii will prove itself to be more than a gimmick.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm glad Nintendo is trying. Asher can bash on them all he wants, but Nintendo at doing more than any other company to keep gaming fresh. The 360 isn't offering anything that the original didn't, except better graphics. XBL is good, but I myself am not that interested in the Arcade; the demo feature is nice, but few of the games end up being worth the time it takes to download; the "media center" experience is also nice, but I don't find myself using that feature all that much.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

Have you guys ever written code for a G3?

I have.

It's not fun, nor powerful.

I may be wrong, but isn't a console system, overall, far different from the equivalent PC version? For example, the original Xbox vs. a comparably equipped PC, the Xbox was capable of doing FAR more, gamewise, because that is basically ALL it is designed to do?

Anyway, from what I've read, the Wii is capable of putting out graphics,etc superior to the GC/Xbox, which is enough for me - Metroid Prime graphics, for example.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
I may be wrong, but isn't a console system, overall, far different from the equivalent PC version? For example, the original Xbox vs. a comparably equipped PC, the Xbox was capable of doing FAR more, gamewise, because that is basically ALL it is designed to do?.

You can gain a lot more power in a closed system, but it's still very, very slow.

The Xbox was certainly far more capable than a 733MHz PC with a GeForce 4,

The Wii will certainly be far more capable than a 750MHz G3 Mac with a GeForce 2 -- question is, is it going to be enough?

It'll match Xbox(1) with graphics at best, and equal that in physics power. Which is to say, not strong enough for most of the fantasy stuff Kuci dreams of.