Dutch Christian Democrats win most seats

[Datajack Franit]

Of course, they are celebrating.. Italy´s World Cup! That´s it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbfistbubjY

And, for your knowledge, just because the media don´t report it, it doesn´t mean it never happened.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Of course, they are celebrating.. Italy´s World Cup! That´s it.

My God, Milano certainly has gone down the drain. What have they done to the Cathedral

[germanos]

Amazing that a thread on Dutch elections turns into vids from Palestine in 30 posts

[Datajack Franit]

Originally posted by germanos


My God, Milano certainly has gone down the drain. What have they done to the Cathedral

ROFTL

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Of course, they are celebrating.. Italy´s World Cup! That´s it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbfistbubjY

And, for your knowledge, just because the media don´t report it, it doesn´t mean it never happened.

That's Palestine, and the footage is fairly suspect in any case.

A 'huge spontaneous party' with tea and biscuits outside a Milan cathedral would presumably attract at least some media attention. I expect you just imagined it or made it up.

[Robert]

If you express yourself poorly, don't blame me for pointing that out.

It's very difficult debating with you if you write nonsense and expect others to magicly understand you mean something different.

You still didn't comment on it though, trying to avoid the subject? Is it that hard to say that Bos was clearly an idiot for crying about the little poking he received, certainly compared to all the sh*t Balkenende had received in the past 4 years?

These fortune seelers have no way into our welfare system. If anything these fortune seekers end up working in the greenhouses in the 'westland' etc.

They do have many ways into our welfare system. Perhaps not all immediately, though they at least get healthcare, rent money (subsidie = ??).

And for most of them it really is

Being rich does not equal to heaven.
I've been in Africa and most people I met were happier then the people I meet overhere in Holland.

It is a little patronizing to say to them that we keep them out of Holland for their own good.

It's one of the reasons.
And it may be a little patronizing, so what?
Have you seen the small boats sinking in front of the spanish coast? I'm rather patronizing people a little bit then that I let them sink.

And it's fooling ourselves as well. We don't want them in here because we don't want them to have a piece of our elaborately stuffed cake.

that's true, I'm the first to say that it's stupid that I should have more rights to be rich then someone in Africa only because I've been born here. That was pure luck, and I agree that we should spread the wealth.

Though the unfortunate thing is that if we let too many immigrants in we'll not all be equal rich but equal poor. It's as with the pour in general, I really really really would have no problems with rising the taxes for the rich. I'm very happy myself to pay 60% tax to help the pour. The unfortunately thing though is that that's not good for our economy, and if the economy goes backwards, the first who notice it are the pour. Unfortunately.

Why are you trying to link these two things together? Should we just scrap the '+' and the '-' from the equation and say we're back at neutral: problem solved?
I really don't see what this comment has to add to the discussion.

I link them together because for the leftish people the SP is acceptable while the PVV is not. The extreme can according to the leftish only be found on the right side. The extreme left is always acceptable while people are very eager to quickly yell nasty things about the extreme right. Notice Pim Fortuyn.

To me the PVV is as acceptable as the SP. In fact I'd rather get rid of both of them. though I concider both of them much better then old fashioned communistic parties, rascist parties, etc. etc.

[Datajack Franit]

I´m talking to gnomes as well

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Locutus

Hinduism for state religion

Completely unrelated to anything which affects me, but why the hell not:

[germanos]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Is it that hard to say that Bos was clearly an idiot for crying about the little poking he received, certainly compared to all the sh*t Balkenende had received in the past 4 years?

Bos is clearly an idiot and a whining little puppy.

[Robert]

Originally posted by germanos


Bos is clearly an idiot and a whining little puppy.

Now we talk

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sandman
That's Palestine, and the footage is fairly suspect in any case.

My turn to call BS.

[atawa]

Originally posted by germanos
But I can see why they have little faith in democracy if a guy like Wilders gets 9 seats on a program that want to curb the building of mosques, ban the headscarf etc.

So becouse someone gets 9 seats on a program they dont like they have no faith in democracy...... Sounds like they havent figured out the basic principles of democracy to me.

And there is a difference between tolerance and indifference. The latter is being thrown out for sure, but tolerance has never taken a firm foothold.

We have a long tradition of tolerance, be it religious minorities, homosexuals or just people with different lifestyles in general. We are the country that took in refugees from both sides during the English civel war.

such a convenient 'argument'. There are cities more populated then Holland. Think New York, Tokyo. There is no reason to curb immigration because of population density.

Yes there is, unless you want to let Holland grow into one big city. I presonaly enjoy the few green spots we have left.

wrong with fortune seekers? Are you not a fortune seeker? IMO everybody is a fortune seeker.
I'm so baffled by the Liberal Party's stand on this, and their choice of words, because they are all for free trade and lifting the barriers for trade. But if there should be free trafic of goods, why shouldn't the same apply to people? If you don't want both, you're only paying lip-service to liberalism.

China: 1.3 billion people
India: 1 billion people
Holland: 16 million people

Need more reasons?

No, the real reason to curb the immigration of fortune seekers is to maintain our astonishing wealth at the expence of those who seek the same. Let them work in the sweatshops in Asia or Africa for pennies and make the big profits selling 80 euro jeans on the market here. Fish empty their waters with our big trawlers that have emptied the North Sea allready. But Oh No's if they dare to come and work here.

If you want to give away your astonishing wealth you are free to do so :P

Those fortune seekers are probably willing to do your job for a quarter of your wage.
You are aware I hope that the global definition of poverty lies somewhere in the range of making less then $1 a day?

Yes, the main reason I lough at people claiming to be poor in Holland
On a sidenote I dont blame them trying their luck, I'd probably do the same in their position, then again I wouldnt blame them for trying to stop me too.

(On a side note: It could have been worse though if Marco Pastors party (one NL) would have gained any seats. His comparison of our government ´not stepping up against muslims´ with the lack of action against Germans (sic) pre WWII was distatefull and a good sign of how far the paranoia has set in. Thankfully the voters didn´t fall for that and turned to Wilders´ Freedom Party,l who is moderate only in comparison.)

You mean the party that had a muslim placed third on the list? If you had read both party programs instead of reading the azijnbode you would have known then éénNL stands somewhere between the VVD and Wilders, closer to Rita then to Geert.....

[atawa]

Originally posted by johncmcleod
I think the notion of Holland is being Islamified with 6% of the population being Muslim is a little delusional. And I think it's quite unfair to restrict the freedom of an entire religious group just because of the views of a few extreme members. Over in the states we have the same thing, a few very extreme fundamentalist Christians whose beliefs also lead to hate, violence, and opression (watch the documentary Jesus Camp, it's about a summer camp that teaches kids to be soldiers for Christ), not to mention most Christians are intolerant of homosexuality for religious reasons, yet we're not going to take measures against Christianity.

If you move to a different country you'll have to adept to a different way of life, morals and values, the problem with a large group of mostly north african imigrants is that they simple dont want to play by our rules but expect the rest of us to play by theirs.

Like what? You're going to punish people for disagreeing with you? And I bet we could find much more white Dutch people living off of the welfare system than immigrants.

Who said anything about punishing?
The fact is we have a serious problem with one group of imigrants, turning a blind eye and letting them sort it out themselves didnt work so its time to try a different aproach.

You have the same mentality as red-state Americans. What would you do if you were in their situation? If you lived in a country with no opportunity and nothing but poverty you'd do the same thing, you'd try to make a better life for yourself and move to a better place to live. Why be so hard on them? What is wrong with being a 'fortune seeker?' We're all fortune seekers, and I don't see why you're labeling the actions of what anyone would do in that situation as morally wrong. The US was founded by fortune seekers with the same idea in mind as these people, and we turned out ok.

I would do exactly the same, but wouldnt blame people trying to stop me either. I'm not saying its wrong, just saying we have more then enough people as it is, if we're going to let in new people I rather let in the people who realy need asylum.

[johncmcleod]

I might respond to these later when it isn't late and when I have time, but I need to get to the real question, the one that concerns me about the Christian Democrats doing well in the elections. The rise of them, will it have an effect on the legalization of drugs in Holland? Seriously, I went to Europe for the first time over the summer. I loved it, and the last night we were there was a night in Amsterdam (we had a 20 hour layover there). Needless to say it was a mindblowing, life-altering, psychedelic experience, and I've come to the conclusion Amsterdam is the best city known to man. Will they criminalize mushrooms? That would be incredibly disappointing.

[Hueij]

Don't worry john, our Christian-Democrats have been in the center of power since the beginning of time. They only missed out on two governments (8 years) in all those years.

You will be able to get stoned here forever

It's the other stuff I'm worried about, euthanasia, abortion (although I doubt they can stop a 35+ years practice) and gay marriage.