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  • Dutch Christian Democrats win most seats

    I didn't know the anti-Muslim sentiment was this bad, I thought Holland was renowned for its tolerance of other cultures and religions. And what is with using a religion in the name of a political party?

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    Dutch Christian Democrats win most seats

    By ARTHUR MAX, Associated Press Writer

    1 hour, 23 minutes ago


    The Dutch prime minister's center-right Christian Democrats won the most seats in elections Wednesday, but nearly complete returns showed a sharply splintered — and possibly deadlocked — parliament with no alliance winning a clear mandate to govern.

    The Dutch divided their votes between a government coalition that has been tough on immigration and pro-business, and socialists — led by the Labor Party — promoting a softer approach.

    No combination of left- or right-wing parties will easily muster full control of parliament, state-funded broadcaster NOS predicted after more than 94 percent of the vote was counted.

    The vote could result in weeks, or months, of coalition haggling with smaller parties in a position to demand a heavy price for their support. Even if a coalition emerges, the result could be an unstable government that would have difficulty completing a four-year term.

    Still, an upbeat Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende pledged to "build on the foundation we laid." But he acknowledged the result was "complicated," and said coalition negotiations would require "a level head and perseverance."

    "It's chaos. It is extremely difficult to distill a government out of these results," said Finance Minister Gerrit Zalm of the free-market Liberal party, Balkenende's current partner in parliament.

    "The jigsaw can still be laid in many different ways," said Nebahat Albayrak, a top-ranking Labor candidate.

    Balkenende's Christian Democrats, cashing in on an economic revival and popular measures to crack down on immigration, easily beat its closest rival, Labor, winning 41 seats to Labor's 32, according to the unofficial late results.

    Official results are not expected until Monday.

    The Christian Democrat's narrow victory was predicted early in the day in an exit poll by the TNS Nipo market research group and released on RTL television — based on responses from 27,000 voters.

    "If the polls are right, I'm very happy because we're still the biggest party," said Marja van Bijsterveld, the chairwoman of the Christian Democrats. "We had great candidates, a strong program and a leader who was solid as a rock."

    But it's still not enough for a majority in parliament for the Christian Democrats. Even in parntership with the free market Liberals, any Christian Democrat-led coalition would need to bring several more parties on board to reach a majority of 76 seats in the 150-member legislature.

    Labor, led by Wouter Bos, emphasized how difficult it will be for their rivals to rule.

    "What is clear is that this Cabinet has no mandate to continue," said Michiel van Hulten, Labor's campaign chairman. "That is good news. The Netherlands has opted for change."

    At the same time, no combination of leftist parties appears capable of forming a majority, leaving open the possibility of an uncomfortable alliance among ideological foes, or even a "grand coalition" of the two largest parties.

    The Socialist Party, led by political veteran Jan Marijnissen, made the biggest gains Wednesday. One exit poll predicted the Socialists would gain 17 seats, to 26, in the new parliament, nearly triple their current total.

    "We expected to double our seats but this is absolutely fantastic," said Socialist Party lawmaker Agnes Kant. "I am proud the Netherlands wants to move to the left."

    Right-wing maverick Geert Wilders also had cause to celebrate. After leading a one-man faction in the outgoing parliament, his allies were forecast to win nine seats on the strength of his powerful anti-immigrant message.

    "We are a normal party that wants lower taxes and tougher sentences, but we are also proud of our culture and against the rise of Islam in Dutch society," he said. "There are enough Muslims in the Netherlands and enough mosques."

    About six percent of the Dutch population is Muslim.


    The country has been engaged in a rancorous debate over immigration and the threat of Islamic terrorism following two political murders tied to Islam in recent years.

    But immigration and Islam were barely mentioned until the final days of the campaign, when Balkenende's hard-line immigration minister, Rita Verdonk, said the government intended to outlaw burqas and other face-covering apparel.

    Fawaz Jneid, a Muslim cleric who has been criticized for his radical statements, said the attempt to ban the burqa would backfire on the government.

    "The number of women in the Netherlands who wear a face-covering cloth is very few," he said. "The reality is that this law will hurt the Netherlands much more than it will hurt the women."

    Labor's Bos campaigned saying he agreed generally with the government's call for restrictions on immigration, but called for a revival of the Netherlands' traditional tolerance of newcomers. He hammered the conservatives over what he called a heartless social policy, but kept his criticism on immigration policy muted.

    "On one side ... we have to ask people to prepare to come to the Netherlands so they can adapt to our society's core values," Bos said in a televised debate Tuesday. "But we must also ask our society to do something: Make people feel welcome here."

    If he became prime minister, Bos said, he would grant pardons and citizenship to thousands of frustrated asylum seekers who have been living illegally for years in the Netherlands.

    Balkenende, in contrast, insisted the illegal migrants be deported. He said his government's immigration and integration policies had made progress in the past four years, "but there is still work to do."

    Balkende's ruling coalition collapsed in June after a minor party, D66, pulled out to protest immigration minister Verdonk's botched attempt to revoke the citizenship of Somali-born lawmaker and strident critic of radical Islam, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

    In a first for Europe, the Party for Animals was forecast Wednesday to win at least two seats. The animal rights' party wants to curb inhumane practices in industrial farming.
    "The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society. How many crimes, wars, murders, how many miseries and horrors might the human race had been spared by the one who, upon pulling up the stakes or filling in the ditch, had shouted to his fellow men: 'Beware of listening to this imposter; you are lost if you forget the fruits of the earth belong to all and that the earth belongs to no one." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  • #2
    Not a surprise at all, in the last months several terrorist attack plans were prevented by the intelligence services right in time in Den Haag, Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

    How would you like to live with a minority refusing to integrate and segregating itself in your own country using its laws, language and social rules?
    I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

    Asher on molly bloom

    Comment


    • #3
      1. The CDA (Christian democrats) are not to be confused with the Freedom Party. It's the freedom party that is anti-muslim, not the Christian Democrats.

      2. The Freedom Party is not against all muslims, it's against the extreme muslims and wants to moderate them. I think they can't be compared to De Winter in Belgium.

      3. What's wrong with having a name of a religion in your name? You can have names of all kinds of all kinds of ideals in your name, communist party, liberal party, green party, why not a christian party based on christian politics? And that's what the CDA is, christian democrats, they are christians who are doing politics in a democratic way.
      Formerly known as "CyberShy"
      Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

      Comment


      • #4
        And what is with using a religion in the name of a political party?
        'Christian Democrats' is a fairly common name for European political parties. It's not usually considered a problem.

        The result (big increases for the Socialists, Freedom Party) suggest a polarisation of Dutch politics. Although it's a subject about which I know next to nothing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, dutch politics are getting more polarised.
          though the CDA is the center party, and it's the biggest.

          It's the most complex result I've seen in the Netherlands in recent history. I think that it's clear that our Prime Minister has gotten approval, his party is still the biggest and has only lost a 2% of the votes (after a recession and hard economic/social times). The rest of the votes has been scatered.
          Formerly known as "CyberShy"
          Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

          Comment


          • #6
            So basically now the CDA has to form a coalition with the loony right or form a grand coalition that would include labor, right?

            Fun fun fun.
            Stop Quoting Ben

            Comment


            • #7
              By ARTHUR MAX, Associated Press Writer

              ...

              The country has been engaged in a rancorous debate over immigration and the threat of Islamic terrorism following two political murders tied to Islam in recent years.

              ...
              This statement is false. One was tied to a muslim fundamentalist, and it was the murder of columnist and movie director Theo van Gogh. The only political murder was 4 years ago on Pim Fortuyn, who was murdered by an animal rights activist, whose motive is completely unclear (the murderer has remaind silent on that.)


              On the OP: IMO the Netherlands has never been 'tolerant', there is more an attitude of: 'as long as what you do or what your opinions are don't really affect me, move on, I don't care.

              And yes, the rise of the Freedom Party is a reason for concern: the party is anti-muslim (and not anti-fundamentalist as CyberShy claims). They want the muslims back in their pen. Assimilate or leave, that is basicly their idea (and I use assimilate on purpose)

              The geo-political situation with regard to islam has its effect in Holland, and these elections show that. The fear for muslims is growing. Note that there were two more parties running on the same program who both just failed to get a seat.

              I must add that there is a strong growth of anti-immigration in general. The last Government has been a staunch opponent of immigration, primarly aimed at curbing muslim immigrants (often family of current residents/nationals), asylum seakers (many muslims among them, think Somali's, Kurds, Iraqi's, plenty other Africans). And in the most recent election debates the 'free market liberals'(as described in the article) has extended it to 'fortune seekers'. (I guess they mean here the people that want to immigrate purely for econmical reasons, which is somehow bad in their opinion apparently)

              On the election itself:
              Indeed the political landscape has splintered and it will be very difficult to get a government. As the article states at least three parties will have to join to get a majority in parliament and in that case both the Christion Democrats and the Labour party msut be part of it. However there has been a lot of mudslinging going on which makes it very unlikely that will happen. The Christian Democrats might have traditionally been a center-party but this time they have been at the forefront of the polarization in the campaign (basically slinging mud to everybody) that they may find it very difficult to get any allies.

              In fact I predict new elections in May.

              As a last note: Two seats were taken by another one-issue party: The Animal Party whose only point is to curb the abuse of animals, specifically of the animals being kept in the bio-industry.
              Last edited by germanos; November 24, 2006, 13:10.
              "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
              "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

              Comment


              • #8
                The CDA has been at the forefront of the polarization in the campaign (basically slinging mud to everybody)


                They said that the leader of the labor party lied and changed opinion all the time. Since the first was literally true in the specific debate, and the 2nd can hardly be seen as slinging mud, this is really a biased view on the matters. Even more if you concider that the leftish parties have been insulting the leader of the CDA for 4 years, including cartoon in which he was masturbating in front of the mirror, in debates in which he was portraied as an asocial person, as someone without a heart, as a stupid harry potter who is the poodle of Bush, etc. etc. etc.

                It's really pathatic that after 4 years of the worst mud trowing to Balkenende the Labor party started to cry after one single statement: "You lie and you turn around all the time".

                Even more if you concider that Bos, the leader of the Labor party, said that Balkenende (leader of the christian democrats) could be compared with a wesp who stings everyone who critisizes him and said about the #2 of the CDA that he has a low level of civilization.
                Formerly known as "CyberShy"
                Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

                Comment


                • #9
                  Number of seats (from Wikipedia)

                  Christian Democratic Appeal -------- 41
                  Labour Party -------- 32
                  Socialist Party -------- 26
                  People's Party for Freedom and Democracy -------- 22
                  Party for Freedom -------- 9
                  GreenLeft -------- 7
                  ChristianUnion -------- 6
                  Democrats 66 -------- 3
                  Party for the Animals -------- 2
                  Political Reformed Party -------- 2



                  So a broad conservative coalition could govern, CDA, Freedom & Democracy, Freedom, & Christian Union would have enough.
                  Last edited by OzzyKP; November 23, 2006, 11:45.
                  Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                  When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by germanos
                    And yes, the rise of the Freedom Party is a reason for concern: the party is anti-muslim (and not anti-fundamentalist as CyberShy claims). They want the muslims back in their pen. Assimilate or leave, that is basicly their idea (and I use assimilate on purpose)
                    Not a reason for concern, its about time someone stands up to the islamification of Holland. Religious freedom is all fine and dandy but not when it leads to hate, violence, and opression.
                    The main reason for concern is the constant death threats witch Geert receives from screwed up islamists and the extreme left, the same extreme leftists who killed Pim btw, bullets come from the left in Holland.....must have something to do with a lack of valid arguments...


                    The geo-political situation with regard to islam has its effect in Holland, and these elections show that. The fear for muslims is growing. Note that there were two more parties running on the same program who both just failed to get a seat.
                    I wouldnt call it fear, people are just fed up with large portions of (mainly Maroccan) immigrants who only seem to be here for the welfaresystem and in general make a nuisance of themselves. You must know that 20% of ethnic Maroccans have criminal records, and in the latest survey around 50% of ethnic Maroccan youth was against democracy. We have been tolerant with these people long enough and it doesnt work, so time to try a different aproach.


                    I must add that there is a strong growth of anti-immigration in general. The last Government has been a staunch opponent of immigration, primarly aimed at curbing muslim immigrants (often family of current residents/nationals), asylum seakers (many muslims among them, think Somali's, Kurds, Iraqi's, plenty other Africans). And in the most recent election debates the 'free market liberals'(as described in the article) has extended it to 'fortune seekers'. (I guess they mean here the people that want to immigrate purely for econmical reasons, which is somehow bad in their opinion apparently)
                    Living in the second most densly populated country in the world (after Bangladesh ) we have to be tough on immigration, but what you describe is false, the current imigration laws were not made under this administration but under the former labourminister Job "Rooijbos" Cohen. The last goverment finaly got around to implementing them. Also the current imigration minister Rita Verdonk has given asylum to more people then ever before in modern history.

                    The problem with asylumseekers is that 80%+ are here only for the money, not due to political reasons or becouse of wars. How else would you call these people if not fortune seekers????


                    On the election itself:
                    Indeed the political landscape has splintered and it will be very difficult to get a government. As the article states at least three parties will have to join to get a majority in parliament and in that case both the Christion Democrats and the Labour party msut be part of it. However there has been a lot of mudslinging going on which makes it very unlikely that will happen. The Christian Democrats might have traditionally been a center-party but this time they have been at the forefront of the polarization in the campaign (basically slinging mud to everybody) that they may find it very difficult to get any allies.

                    In fact I predict new elections in May.
                    Agreed, but I doubt new elections will change the seating dramaticly, maybe some more seats for Geert as people voting éénNL, Nawijn and Fortyun will most likely all vote for the Freedom party now.


                    As a last note: Two seats were taken by another one-issue party: The Animal Party whose only point is to curb the abuse of animals, specifically of the animals being kept in the bio-industry.
                    Goodlooking woman in parliament

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OzzyKP
                      So a broad conservative coalition could govern, CDA, Freedom & Democracy, Freedom, & Christian Union would have enough.
                      The Christian union are only conservative on issues like abortion, euthanesia and shops being closed on sunday, apart from that they are moderate left wing.


                      The most likely coalition imo is CDA/CU and labour but as labour lost about 25% of their votes compared to last time (loosing most to the SP) I doubt they want in on this deal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by atawa
                        Not a reason for concern, its about time someone stands up to the islamification of Holland. Religious freedom is all fine and dandy but not when it leads to hate, violence, and opression.
                        I agree Let's forbid Christianity, atheism and agnosticism, because most of the hate and violence in this country is coming from people of these convictions and is aimed at muslims.

                        Hinduism for state religion

                        The main reason for concern is the constant death threats witch Geert receives from screwed up islamists and the extreme left, the same extreme leftists who killed Pim btw, bullets come from the left in Holland.....must have something to do with a lack of valid arguments...
                        Oh yes, all the hate is clearly coming from the left-wing, you're so level-headed and rational yourself, you're a victim here, what have you ever done to deserve this type of treatment?
                        Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Don't bother Locutus, the guy is a Vlaams Blokker. Notice how he says Geert when he means Wilders...
                          Within weeks they'll be re-opening the shipyards
                          And notifying the next of kin
                          Once again...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Locutus


                            I agree Let's forbid Christianity, atheism and agnosticism, because most of the hate and violence in this country is coming from people of these convictions and is aimed at muslims.

                            Hinduism for state religion



                            Oh yes, all the hate is clearly coming from the left-wing, you're so level-headed and rational yourself, you're a victim here, what have you ever done to deserve this type of treatment?
                            Reading a post before answering might be a good idea

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hueij
                              Don't bother Locutus, the guy is a Vlaams Blokker. Notice how he says Geert when he means Wilders...
                              Vlaams Blok?
                              I wouldnt if I could.

                              But I meant Geert, who I wouldnt vote for either. I voted for Laetitia

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